AFTERMARKET BRAKE PADS ====================== Original Archive Name: Brake_Pads ND BBS Archive Name: BRKPADS.TXT Last update: Jan 3, 1996 Editor: Jan Vandenbrande Authors: See individual posts Summary: The intro discusses the differences between Repco Metal Masters, Mintex Silver Lines, Mintex Redboxes against stock pads. When it comes time to replace your brake pads, what should you get? You don't like the dust created by the stock pads, the squeeling, and are looking for something different. All the performance shops push Repco MetalMasters, Mintex, Ferodo, Performance Friction Carbon Metallic or what ever. How do they compare to stock pads? I kept a little file of people's impressions on these pads. The opinions vary a lot on these aftermarket pads, and one of the things to keep in mind is your frame of reference. I use the stock pad as a reference, but not all VWs with stock pads behave the same. As a case in point, my 81 Euro Scirocco's OEM pads felt very similar to the Repco MM pads. However, the OEM pads of the 86 GTI were very grabby cold while the Repco MM exhibited the "cold slide" problems. Repcos have a higher temp rating which means they need to be hot before they really "work". This means that your first stop of the day may be a bit traumatic. As soon as the brakes cool, (sitting in traffic, driving on the freeway for a while), you'll be back to a scary brake application. I also speculate that the type of rotor you have plays a roll. For example my former 81 S had solid rotor, and stayed warm a while. My Corrado G60 has probably the largest set of vented rotors with special cooling ducts of any A-series VW, and these rotors cool very quickly. To borrow from one of my postings further below, this is how I compared the Mintex Silver pads (which fall somewhere in between stock and MMs) with the very grabby when cold stock Corrado G60 pads: Deacceleration G60 Mintex Silver Line Pads ^ | + + + + + eye popping, but we had to wait a bit | + | + | + Its picking up | + | + |+ + AAAHHH, We are sliding, are we gonna make it +----------------------------> Time 60 mph 0 mph Deacceleration Stock G60 VW Pads ^ | + + + + the eye thing |+ + + + + + |Grab + + + + | | slight fade, good thing I have slowed down enough by now | | +----------------------------> Time 60 mph 0 mph Deacceleration Repco Metal Masters (based on experiences with an 86 GTI) ^ | + + + + + eye popping, but we had to wait a bit | + | + | + Whew, I think we are gonna make it | + | + | + AAAHHH, We are really sliding, are we gonna make it ++-+-+-----------------------> Time 60 mph 0 mph Some say you should not use MM for street use, but only for racing. Oh, BTW, you do get less dust with MMs (rust colored) and Mintex, and I never had problems with squeeling either. In regards to the earlier mention Mintex pads, I did not like them on my G60, which does not mean they won't work well for you, on another car. Tim Hildabrand, President of New Dimensions had the following to say: -------------------------------------------- 9/25/94 **Note added by Second Generation Sysop Turbotim** We have installed hundreds of Mintex Silverline pads on all different models of VW's and Audi's. We have had no complaints from our customers and many positive compliments about performance and reduction in brake dust. Repco, PBR and Mintex are all owned by the same corporation. Mintex pads are made in England and have higher heat rating and superior cold braking performance compared to Repco-PBR's. New Dimensions is a Wharehouse Distributor for Mintex and we offer a money back warranty on any Mintex pads. If you don't like them we will refund your money or replace them. I am happy to say we have not had to replace a set yet. We had found the Repco's great for most hard use but the higher pedal effort and poor cold braking caused us to switch. We use to use the deluxe pads for the less spirited driver and they did not have as much of a cold braking problem, but with Mintex we have the best of both worlds and less inventory to keep in stock. BTW ALWAYS machine or replace rotors when replacing pads. We have seen problems from DIY's who think because they don't see any grooves their rotors are fine. WRONG!!! @@ TT @@ @@ Second Generation BBS @@ Headquarters for H20 VW Lovers @@ (408) 980-8830 (2 lines) 24 hours -------------------------------------------- But WAIT there is more! As of late 95, Mintex has reformulated their pads, and came out with the "RedBox" pads which are supposedly close to stock. Here is another good post: -------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 13:27:26 -0400 From: cjh@garage.att.com (c.hapeman) Subject: brake pad review Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com To: corrado-l@teleport.com Cc: cjh@garage.att.com Re: review of the new Mintex 'red box' version brake pads At about 55K miles i decided to replace my '90 G60's stock pads with Mintex silverlines. Net wisdom showed i would experience some loss in performance but eliminate a major amount of brake dust. After 5K miles i was still very disappointed with the sliding characteristics of the silverlines. TurboTim graciously replaced my silverlines with one of Mintex's new compounds, which was to bridge the gap between their silverlines and stock. The other compound, called the HP version is thier high performance range, which i cannot comment on. After running with them for about 500 miles i can comment on my findings. This new compound seems to have been successful, it has meshed the properties of the silverlines and stock pads. They are a notch below stock in regard to initial grab but produce no fade and brake dust is minimal, much less than stock. The first braking during a cold morning doesn't appear to be a problem but it hasn't gotten much colder than 50 degrees here though. They are what i expected the silverlines to have been. Conclusion: if brake dust is not a problem and you are comfortable with the slight fade of stock pads stay with them. if you can live without the initial big grab that stock offers and you wish to eliminate the fade and brake dust then the new Mintex's offer an very good alternative. I have reprinted the first two graphs from jan's achives and added the third based on my experiences. Deacceleration MINTEX SILVERLINES ^ | + + + + + eye popping, but we had to wait a bit | + | + | + Its picking up | + | + |+ + AAAHHH, We are sliding, are we gonna make it +----------------------------> Time 60 mph 0 mph Deacceleration STOCK G60 VW PADS ^ | + + + + the eye thing |+ + + + + + |Grab + + + + | | slight fade, good thing I have slowed down enough by now | | +----------------------------> Time 60 mph 0 mph Deacceleration MINTEX NEW NON-HP REDBOX COMPOUND ^ | + + + + + eye popping and no fade | + | + | +++ |+ |Grab | +----------------------------> Time 60 mph 0 mph -------------------------------------------- A note from [Jan] on the Redboxes. I am currently using the Redboxes on our SLC and agree with Chris's comments. After the initial 500 miles, cold grab improved, and would put it a couple notches closer to the stock pads. The cold grab is close enough to stock that you don't think about it, even when you switch between a Corrado with stock pads and the Redboxes. In fact, I am currently considering tossing my stock G60 pads out and replacing them with these as their hot braking characteristics are that much better. Oh the dust...well it's about as bad as the stocks...but compressed air seems to get rid of it easily. Jan Vandenbrande Copyright Notice (c) -- 1995, 1996: All Rights Reserved The information contained here is collectively copyrighted by the authors. The right to reproduce this is hereby given, provided it is copied intact, with the copyright notice inclusive. However, the authors explicitly prohibit selling this document, any of its parts, or any document which contains parts of this document. Use this information at your own risk. ========================================================================== Now the individual postings: -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BBS::IN%"uunet!ee.rochester.edu!msirota" 2-JAN-1991 13:23:11.55 To: usc!lipari.usc.edu!jan@cerritos (Jan Vandenbrande) CC: The Volkswagen Interest Group Subj: RE: Repcos again On Dec 27, 3:45pm, Jan Vandenbrande writes: > I need to replace the rear pads on my wife's 1986 GTI, > and I was wondering whether Repcos metal masters are a good > replacement over stock (pedal feel, lock ups?) On Dec 29, 12:39am, Ti Kan writes: > I am running Repco MetalMasters brake pads on all four corners of my > Audi 4000. And it is wonderful. ... The stopping ability is great, and > the perpetual squeal that I used to have is gone with the Repcos. > Moreover, the brake dust generated from the Repcos are much less > troublesome to clean off the wheel than the stock pads. Empirical evidence > seems to suggest that the Repcos are less prone to brake fade as well. > > In short, I recommend Repco MetalMasters without reservations. I recommend Repco MetalMasters, but with reservations. All of Ti's observations are quite correct. When I started autocrossing, I switched to Repcos because I was having fade problems. The Repco's just don't fade, are quiet, and generate that wonderful dust that comes off easily with a sponge and water. However, the feel is *dramatically* different. Worse, in my opinion. The tradeoff for the high fade resistance is that these pads just don't work well until they get hot. On the street, that's not terribly often; they have plenty of time to cool down between stops. For road racing, time trials, etc, I definitely recommend Repcos. For the street or even for autocrossing, I recommend sticking with the stock pads. The feel is better and the pedal effort is dramatically lower with the stock pads, and they work just as well (or maybe better) when the brakes are cold. Unfortunately, this means it's much harder to clean your wheels... > But if you plan on upgrading to Repcos, be sure to upgrade all four > so as not to upset the braking balance of the car. One of the wonderful things about these cars (at least the A2 chassis) is that the brake bias is adjustable. Any other comments? -- Mark Sirota - Department of Electrical Engineering University of Rochester, Rochester NY Internet: msirota@ee.rochester.edu UUCP: {decvax,garp,harvard,hombre,rutgers}!rochester!ur-valhalla!msirota From: norge@access.digex.com (Lars Kongshem) Date: 16 Apr 1993 09:34:47 -0400 Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA Keywords: vw, tires, rims NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.net Lines: 29 On a related note, the stock brake pads were prone to fade and left black dust all over the wheels. I switched to Wagner pads, which have almost *zero* dust and brake a LOT better. Again, what was VW thinking? LARS KONGSHEM NORGE@ACCESS.DIGEX.COM The American School Board Journal KONGSHEM@AOL.COM The Executive Educator (703) 838-6726 (voice) Alexandria, Virginia USA (703) 683-7590 (fax) From access.digex.com!norge@UUNET Wed Apr 21 19:32 PDT 1993 Received: from mailer by fshpp1 with SMTP (16.8/16.2) id AA16817; Wed, 21 Apr 93 19:32:11 -0700 Return-Path: Received: from VN-GATEWAY by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF #3381 ) id <01GXA8Y09RPC001M3D@UG.EDS.COM>; Wed, 21 Apr 1993 19:30:08 PDT Received: from access.digex.com (via access.digex.net) by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA15182; Wed, 21 Apr 93 21:43:42 -0400 Received: by access.digex.com id AA22524 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for Jan Vandenbrande ); Wed, 21 Apr 1993 16:56:35 -0400 Date: 21 Apr 1993 16:53:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Lars Kongshem Subject: Re: [W] Corrado High Tire Pressure: Solved In-Reply-To: <01GX6V33F2XE002AF2@UG.EDS.COM> Sender: Lars Kongshem To: Jan Vandenbrande Reply-To: Lars Kongshem Message-Id: X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Jan, I haven't tried Repco MetalMaster pads ... a Porsche club member told me they weren't that great. I suspect they need to be at a high operating temperature to be really effective. Not so great on the street, in other words, but on the track they might work fine. Wagner pads are semi-metallic, by the way. There's no squeal, and I haven't had any trouble with lockup. Cheers, LARS KONGSHEM NORGE@ACCESS.DIGEX.COM The American School Board Journal KONGSHEM@AOL.COM The Executive Educator (703) 838-6726 (voice) Alexandria, Virginia USA (703) 683-7590 (fax) From morgan.ucs.mun.ca!kbaddour@UUNET Tue Apr 20 13:43 PDT 1993 Received: from mailer by fshpp1 with SMTP (16.8/16.2) id AA14033; Tue, 20 Apr 93 13:43:13 -0700 Return-Path: Received: from VN-GATEWAY by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF #3381 ) id <01GX8IBVB5Y8001M3D@UG.EDS.COM>; Tue, 20 Apr 1993 13:37:02 PDT Received: from morgan.ucs.mun.ca by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA02217; Tue, 20 Apr 93 15:59:14 -0400 Received: by morgan.ucs.mun.ca id AA09771 (5.65d3+/IDA-1.4.2+MUN1.3 for jan@ug.eds.com); Tue, 20 Apr 93 17:25:15 -0230 Date: 20 Apr 1993 17:25:15 -0230 From: Kareem Baddour Subject: Re: [W] Corrado High Tire Pressure: Solved To: jan@UG.EDS.COM Message-Id: <9304201955.AA09771@morgan.ucs.mun.ca> X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO >Don't you think that the Repcos are bit hard pedalled? >-- >Jan Vandenbrande >jan@ug.eds.com (New address) >jan@lipari.usc.edu (school address, forwards) >UUCP: {uunet, uupsi}!ug!jan Yes, I have to agree with you there. I've found that the "Metalmasters" certainly require more pressure than the stock pads, although it doesn't bother me at all. I'm very pleased with my braking performance now on my '83 Rabbit (non-Gti) after adding the Repco's and upgrading to 9.4" vented rotors on the front. I would have gone to the 10.1"'s but they require a minimum 14" wheel diameter, which I don't use in the winters here. I think I'll try the Repco Deluxe? pads next time (one grade lower than the metalmasters) around to see if they require less effort. Kareem kbaddour@morgan.ucs.mun.ca From usc!howland.reston.ans.net!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!dove!starchild.ncsl.nist.gov!keys Thu Jun 24 08:37:22 PDT 1993 Article: 16640 of rec.autos.vw Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw Path: usc!howland.reston.ans.net!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!uunet!dove!starchild.ncsl.nist.gov!keys From: keys@starchild.ncsl.nist.gov (Lawrence B. Keys) Subject: Re: Rear brake caliper (Passat) VW special tool Message-ID: Sender: news@dove.nist.gov Organization: National Institute of Standards & Technology References: <1993Jun23.133526.22560@nap.amoco.com> Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1993 20:01:36 GMT Lines: 60 In article <1993Jun23.133526.22560@nap.amoco.com> weidman@nap.amoco.com writes: > >I've begun to develop a persistant squeal on my 90 Passat. It's goes >away when I touch the brake pedal or hand brake. I assume it's time to >replace the rear pads (fronts were done a few months ago). > >Can anyone give me info on the tool required to screw the piston back >into the caliper? The Bentley's photo isn't very helpful. If you want to buy the tool call Zelinda Machine Tools (718) 896-2288 in NY. I have been stalling on my rear brake replacement for a while, because of this special tool needed. I called Zelinda and they quoted me a price of $50. Anyway, on the front of my GLI i installed Repco MetalMasters, and although many people dont care for them, i consider them to be much better than stock (especially when it comes to brake dust). Well, this week our local club is having a clinic at the VW dealership and i hope to gain access to this "special tool" so that i can change my rear pads. BTW, the rear caliper piston has two notches on the outter edge. This tool fits into the notches and then you turn the piston into a lowered position for new pad mounting. > >Also, any suggestions on pad material. I switched from the carbon >composite ($$$) to semi-metallic on the fronts with no apparent ill >effects, but I'm wondering whether this was the right thing to do. >What reasons are there for the carbon jobs anyway (The front disks are >vented if it matters - not sure about the rears). Advice? > >Dan Weidman > >One other picky thing -- I have alloys wheels with the little removable >centers. After doing the front brakes I somehow loosened these things >up and now they jingle at low speeds (very, very, VERY annoying). Any >idea about how best to shut them up. The rears don't do this ... yet. > . / Larry __/ _______/_ keys@csmes.ncsl.nist.gov / \ _____ __ _____ \------- === ----------- / ____/ / / /__ __/ \ / ___ / / ___ / / / / ____ | | / \/ /__ / | / /__ __/ /__ / \ / /___ \_______/ /_____/ /______/ ====OO \ / \ / - 1990 2.0 16v - ---------------- FAHRVERGNUGEN FOREVER! -------------------- The fact that I need to explain it to you indicates that you probably wouldn't understand anyway! ------------------------------------------------------------ From keys@csmes.ncsl.nist.gov Thu Jun 24 11:23 PDT 1993 Received: from mailer by fshpp1 with SMTP (16.8/16.2) id AA20364; Thu, 24 Jun 93 11:23:10 -0700 Return-Path: Received: from usc.edu by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF V4.2-11 #3381) id <01GZR6AWSS7K003K4K@UG.EDS.COM>; Thu, 24 Jun 1993 11:14:44 PDT Received: from lipari.usc.edu by usc.edu (4.1/SMI-3.0DEV3-USC+3.1) id AA12086; Thu, 24 Jun 93 11:19:50 PDT Received: from csmes.ncsl.nist.gov by lipari.usc.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1+ucs-3.6) id AA20151; Thu, 24 Jun 93 11:19:43 PDT Received: from bearcat.ncsl.nist.gov by csmes.ncsl.nist.gov (4.1/NIST(rbj/dougm)) id AA01358; Thu, 24 Jun 93 14:18:14 EDT Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1993 14:18:13 -0400 (EDT) From: keys@csmes.ncsl.nist.gov (Lawrence Keys) Subject: Rear brake caliper (Passat) VW special tool To: jan@lipari.usc.edu Message-Id: Organization: National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sub-Organization: National Computer Systems Laboratory Status: RO > In article you write: > >In article <1993Jun23.133526.22560@nap.amoco.com> weidman@nap.amoco.com writes: > >> > > > >Anyway, on the front of my GLI i installed Repco MetalMasters, and > >although many people dont care for them, i consider them to be > >much better than stock (especially when it comes to brake dust). > > How's the brake feel? Under normal driving conditions, it feels the same as it always has (to me). However, if i have to make an emergency stop (it has happened twice) it seems as though i might not be able to stop in time... then all-of- a-sudden "the brakes kick in". It seems scary at first, but i believe that the stopping distances are probably shorter. It's just that first feeling that the brakes aren't stopping the car, that (i guess), a lot of people don't care for. Anyway, that's my two cents. > > >Well, this week our local club is having a clinic at the VW dealership > >and i hope to gain access to this "special tool" so that i can change > >my rear pads. > > If you can figure out an easy replacement, please let us know. > -- > ----------------- > Jan Vandenbrande > jan@lipari.usc.edu (Research address) > jan@ug.eds.com (Work address) > . / Larry __/ _______/_ keys@csmes.ncsl.nist.gov / \ _____ __ _____ \------- === ----------- / ____/ / / /__ __/ \ / ___ / / ___ / / / / ____ | | / \/ /__ / | / /__ __/ /__ / \ / /___ \_______/ /_____/ /______/ ====OO \ / \ / - - ---------------- FAHRVERGNUGEN FOREVER! -------------------- The fact that I need to explain it to you indicates that you probably wouldn't understand anyway! ------------------------------------------------------------ From lynx.unm.edu!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!olivea!sgigate!odin!news.csd.sgi.com!fido.asd.sgi.com!tyres.asd.sgi.com!thk Tue Aug 10 10:27:08 PDT 1993 Article: 18705 of rec.autos.vw Path: lynx.unm.edu!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!olivea!sgigate!odin!news.csd.sgi.com!fido.asd.sgi.com!tyres.asd.sgi.com!thk From: thk@tyres.asd.sgi.com (Tom Kong) Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw Subject: Re: Brake pads for '86 GTI Date: 10 Aug 1993 01:21:21 GMT Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc., Mountain View, CA Lines: 30 Message-ID: <246t6h$900@fido.asd.sgi.com> References: <23rugcINNdrf@lynx.unm.edu> <16831@optilink.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: tyres.asd.sgi.com In article <16831@optilink.com> walsh@optilink.COM (Mark Walsh) writes: >From article <23rugcINNdrf@lynx.unm.edu>, by jan@camhpp12.ug.eds.com (Jan Vandenbrande): >> In article rgolen@UMASSD.EDU writes: > >True of the Ferodo pads that I've used, but the Repco Metal Master >pads are really nice this way. I've read that pedal effort is >increased only 20% with them, so unless you have some horrendous >medical problem, stopping a 2200 pound car with assisted brakes >shouldn't be terribly difficult. > I second Mark's recommendation on Repco Metal Masters. They practically last forever, don't squeak, and give much less brake dust. I've only noticed that they required a bit more pedal pressure the very first time I used them in cold mornings (in New Hampshire winters), after that they are fine. I haven't noticed any problem here in California. In my '86 gti's 86K miles (with about 1.5K of track use), I've used two sets of VW front pads, and I'm a little over half through my second set of Repcos. I haven't had to replace my rotors, so rotor wear shouldn't be a problem for most people. I've bought a set of Mintex because I was in a hurry and couldn't find Repco's locally, so I'll try that next. /tom From powell@interlan.interlan.com Fri Aug 20 13:52 PDT 1993 Received: from mailer by fshpp1 with SMTP (16.8/16.2) id AA07034; Fri, 20 Aug 93 13:52:03 -0700 Return-Path: Received: from camhpp12.ug.eds.com by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF V4.2-11 #3381) id <01H1YY1GPZSW00C4Z5@UG.EDS.COM>; Fri, 20 Aug 1993 13:41:26 PDT Received: from mailer.ug.eds.com by camhpp12.ug.eds.com with SMTP (1.37.109.4/16.2) id AA21947; Fri, 20 Aug 93 13:51:06 -0700 Received: from interlan.interlan.com by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF V4.2-11 #3381) id <01H1YY146A8G009HKE@UG.EDS.COM>; Fri, 20 Aug 1993 13:41:10 PDT Received: by interlan.interlan.com (5.65/25-eef) id AA10067; Fri, 20 Aug 93 16:17:41 -0400 Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1993 16:17:41 -0400 From: Glen Powell x767 Subject: Re: [W] Mintex Brake Pads In-Reply-To: <25100bINN534@lynx.unm.edu> To: jan@camhpp12 Message-Id: <9308202017.AA10067@interlan.interlan.com> Organization: Racal-InterLan, Boxborough, MA (1-800-LAN-TALK) X-Envelope-To: jan@fshpp1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw Status: RO In article <25100bINN534@lynx.unm.edu> you write: >I just came back from the sale at AutoTech (after buying my >Stage II kit), and had a talk with Dana there regarding >Repco MM pads. He basically had the same opinion about them: >bad when cold ("sliiiiide") good when warm. > >He recommended Mintex pads instead, the same stock grabby feel, better >then Repcos when warm. >I was wondering whether anyone has ever tried them? >I bought the set (34$ each with the sale) so I figured >if the net reviews are bad I can always return them. > Mintex pads are GREAT! BTW, they're made by *Repco*. No problems when cold either. -glen -- Fundsalo Racing-73 CP RAIV 455HO Firebird GTO, 85 Quattro, 84&86 4000CS Quattros The Few..... The Proud..... The Concurrently Executed..... Ex-Alliant Don't buy japanese *ANYTHING*, **NRA Life** ** GONH Life** From Christer.Jogenborn@eos.ericsson.se Mon Aug 23 02:22 PDT 1993 Received: from mailer by fshpp1 with SMTP (16.8/16.2) id AA00239; Mon, 23 Aug 93 02:21:59 -0700 Return-Path: Received: from camhpp12.ug.eds.com by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF V4.2-11 #3381) id <01H22GR1EEDS008UAA@UG.EDS.COM>; Mon, 23 Aug 1993 02:09:52 PDT Received: from mailgate.ericsson.se by camhpp12.ug.eds.com with SMTP (1.37.109.4/16.2) id AA26135; Mon, 23 Aug 93 02:19:33 -0700 Received: from eos.ericsson.se (eos99.ericsson.se) by mailgate.ericsson.se (4.1/SMI-4.1-MAILGATE1.14) id AA21193; Mon, 23 Aug 93 10:45:21 +0200 Received: from eos6.ericsson.se by eos.ericsson.se (4.1/SMI-4.0.2) id AA08137; Mon, 23 Aug 93 10:45:18 +0200 Received: by eos6.ericsson.se (4.1/SMI-4.0.2) id AA08644; Mon, 23 Aug 93 10:45:17 +0200 Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1993 10:45:17 +0200 From: Christer.Jogenborn@eos.ericsson.se Subject: Re: [W] Mintex Brake Pads To: jan@camhpp12 Message-Id: <9308230845.AA08644@eos6.ericsson.se> X-Envelope-To: jan@fshpp1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw References: <25100bINN534@lynx.unm.edu> Status: RO In rec.autos.vw you write: >I just came back from the sale at AutoTech (after buying my >Stage II kit), and had a talk with Dana there regarding >Repco MM pads. He basically had the same opinion about them: >bad when cold ("sliiiiide") good when warm. ^^^^^^^^^- true, I use MetalMaster for dirtracing, always warmed up before the special stages, they want much pedalpressure and leave a grey, metall looking surface on the rotors. In everyday traffic I would say that the pads does not feel confident enough to lock the wheels, if they are not WARMED UP. My pair has lasted a long time, and the rotors are beginning to show wear. When pads are really hot - I would say that they tend to fade and require even more pressure, eventually they will melt and loose material on to the rotor, NO BRAKES !. -This has rarely happened to me, and when it happened it was after furious driving , right foot planted - left foot trowing the rear around by use of breaks, on a 20 km special stage. >He recommended Mintex pads instead, the same stock grabby feel, better >then Repcos when warm. >I was wondering whether anyone has ever tried them? >I bought the set (34$ each with the sale) so I figured >if the net reviews are bad I can always return them. The MINTEX pads does not require warming-up and feels good in everyday traffic, pedal pressure is "normal" even cold. Much more usable from coldstart and will take more heat than the MMs, I forgot the exakt temp.figures for Mintex. Price here (Sweden) for Mintex is twice of the MMs. >He also drives a '90 G60 w S II (50k miles, drk met blue). Both theese pads really take heat and will do the job while hot, but for a streetapplication why use any of them at all, they are costly, will wear rotors. I cannot recall when my stock pads faded away on open roads but perhaps when I was young and fierce (thoughtless)... Christer FIAT 131 TC -77 R.I.P FIAT 131 TC -78 R.I.P VW SCIROCCO -77 R.I.P VW GOLF MK1 -79 and still running >-- >Jan Vandenbrande >jan@ug.eds.com (New address) >jan@lipari.usc.edu (school address, forwards) >UUCP: {uunet, uupsi}!ug!jan From Christer.Jogenborn@eos.ericsson.se Tue Aug 24 11:02 PDT 1993 Received: from mailer by fshpp1 with SMTP (16.8/16.2) id AA20987; Tue, 24 Aug 93 11:02:04 -0700 Return-Path: Received: from mailgate.ericsson.se by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF V4.2-11 #3381) id <01H23QBZS5F4009X3K@UG.EDS.COM>; Mon, 23 Aug 1993 23:57:20 PDT Received: from eos.ericsson.se (eos99.ericsson.se) by mailgate.ericsson.se (4.1/SMI-4.1-MAILGATE1.14) id AA18853; Tue, 24 Aug 93 08:58:23 +0200 Received: from eos6.ericsson.se by eos.ericsson.se (4.1/SMI-4.0.2) id AA01171; Tue, 24 Aug 93 08:58:20 +0200 Received: by eos6.ericsson.se (4.1/SMI-4.0.2) id AA05825; Tue, 24 Aug 93 08:58:19 +0200 Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 08:58:19 +0200 From: Christer.Jogenborn@eos.ericsson.se Subject: Re: [W] Mintex Brake Pads To: jan@UG.EDS.COM Message-Id: <9308240658.AA05825@eos6.ericsson.se> X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO > From jan@UG.EDS.COM Mon Aug 23 18:58:42 1993 > Return-Path: > Received: from mailgate.ericsson.se by eos.ericsson.se (4.1/SMI-4.0.2) > id AA20641; Mon, 23 Aug 93 18:58:40 +0200 > Received: from mailer (mailer.ug.eds.com) by mailgate.ericsson.se (4.1/SMI-4.1-MAILGATE1.14) > id AA06385; Mon, 23 Aug 93 18:58:31 +0200 > Received: from camhpp12.ug.eds.com by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF V4.2-11 #3381) id > <01H22UBE40C000C9FJ@UG.EDS.COM>; Mon, 23 Aug 1993 08:38:14 PDT > Received: by camhpp12.ug.eds.com (1.37.109.4/16.2) id AA26731; Mon, > 23 Aug 93 08:47:15 -0700 > Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1993 08:47:15 -0700 (PDT) > From: Jan Vandenbrande > Subject: Re: [W] Mintex Brake Pads > In-Reply-To: <9308230845.AA08644@eos6.ericsson.se>; from > "Christer.Jogenborn@eos.ericsson.se" at Aug 23, 93 10:45 am > To: Christer.Jogenborn@eos.ericsson.se > Message-Id: <01H22UBE65HU00C9FJ@UG.EDS.COM> > X-Envelope-To: Christer.Jogenborn@eos.ericsson.se > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] > Status: R > > > > > Both theese pads really take heat and will do the job > > while hot, but for a streetapplication why use any of them > > at all, they are costly, will wear rotors. > > I cannot recall when my stock pads faded away on open roads > > but perhaps when I was young and fierce (thoughtless)... > > > > Thanks for your comments. Actually, in the US, the stock pads > cost around 80US$ while the Mintex ones are about half as much... > Finally, the MINTEX M171 will last longer that stock (if used in the same manners) and there is also a Carbon version of the pads available, together with a price adjustment :-) PBR Metal Master is nonasbestos quality, semimetallic (right word?) and will place them selves in the middle between stock and Mintex concerning how much heat they will take. Lifetime is almost as Mintex. -some input from me and my local supplier of comp.parts for VW Golf ,AUDI, VOLVO, FORD, SAAB //:Christer > -- > Jan Vandenbrande > jan@ug.eds.com (New address) > jan@lipari.usc.edu (school address, forwards) > UUCP: {uunet, uupsi}!ug!jan > From lynx.unm.edu!jobone!ukma!darwin.sura.net!coil!starchild.ncsl.nist.gov!keys Thu Feb 10 09:32:11 PST 1994 Article: 26791 of rec.autos.vw Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw Path: lynx.unm.edu!jobone!ukma!darwin.sura.net!coil!starchild.ncsl.nist.gov!keys From: keys@starchild.ncsl.nist.gov (Larry Keys) Subject: Re: [W] Brake Pads Message-ID: Keywords: Metal Master or not Sender: news@nist.gov Organization: National Institute of Standards & Technology References: Date: Mon, 7 Feb 1994 18:28:06 GMT Lines: 47 In article garrick@eng.buffalo.edu (Sean Garrick) writes: > > >I need to replace the brake pads on my 92 Jetta. Looking through European Car, >I saw that Wolf Sport sells Repco pads. Should I get the metal master pads or not. >What are the advantages/disadvantages of using metal master pads? > I have MetalMasters on all for disks, but the next time that i replace them i'll try the Repco Deluxe instead. The metal masters did what i wanted them to do, and that was reduce/eliminate the brake dust accumulating in my BBS wheels (read: major pain to clean). However, these pads cause one to have an accident if the driver is not prepared. When driving in very wet conditions you'll need to use the brake occasionally, otherwise you'll find that for a split second or two there will be no braking action, very frightening, because it is easy to forget this. This also occurs when the pads/rotors are cold, although, it is much less noticeable. We have Repco Deluxe on our Fox, and they have much less dust than the stock pads, but more dust than the MetalMasters. >Thanks in advance. > >Sean >garrick@cfd19.eng.buffalo.edu . / Larry __/ _______/_ keys@csmes.ncsl.nist.gov / \ _____ __ _____ \------- === ----------- / ____/ / / /__ __/ \ / ___ / / ___ / / / / ____ | | / \/ /__ / | / /__ __/ /__ / \ / /___ \_______/ /_____/ /______/ ====OO \ / \ / - 1990 2.0 16v - ---------------- FAHRVERGNUGEN FOREVER! -------------------- The fact that I need to explain it to you indicates that you probably wouldn't understand anyway! ------------------------------------------------------------ From lynx.unm.edu!mimbres.cs.unm.edu!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!news.mentorg.com!wv.mentorg.com!kwatson Mon Feb 14 12:42:45 PST 1994 Article: 27014 of rec.autos.vw Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw Path: lynx.unm.edu!mimbres.cs.unm.edu!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!news.mentorg.com!wv.mentorg.com!kwatson From: kwatson@wv.mentorg.com (Keith Watson) Subject: Re: [W] Brake Pads Sender: news@news.mentorg.com (News User) Message-ID: <1994Feb09.234631.20252@news.mentorg.com> Date: Wed, 09 Feb 1994 23:46:31 GMT References: Nntp-Posting-Host: golf.mentorg.com Organization: Mentor Graphics Keywords: Metal Master or not Followup-To: Lines: 28 In article , garrick@eng.buffalo.edu (Sean Garrick) writes: |> ... Should I get the metal master pads or not. |> What are the advantages/disadvantages of using metal master pads? Metal master pads have the advantages of very little brake dust, they last a long time on a street car, and have very good stopping power when warm. One disadvantage which I don't like is they don't have very good stopping power when they are cold. It is hard to get the tires to lock up. I have had this problem on both VW's and a Porsche 911. I don't like the idea of not having full braking power in case some bozo pulls out in front of me. This happened to me a couple of weeks ago in my 911. Luckily my car slowed in time. I slammed on the brakes and only as the brakes heated up did one of the wheels finally lock up. * * Mandatory know-it-all-netter flame bait diffuser: Before people start flaming on this technique, I am only using it to show that these pads don't have full stopping power when cold. I am not trying to say that you get full stopping power from tires by skidding them, which is not true in the first place. This is my experience with these pads. If yours is different, let us know. For those of you who want to go racing with these pads, they last less than 60 minutes in my Golf (as opposed to years on a street car). -- Keith Watson kwatson@wv.mentorg.com Mentor Graphics Corporation (Wilsonville, OR) 87 VW GTI 16V 85 VW Golf - Conference Production H From lynx.unm.edu!news.cs.indiana.edu!sdd.hp.com!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!news.umbc.edu!haven.umd.edu!umd5.umd.edu!bsospsyc151.umd.edu!user Mon Feb 14 12:47:07 PST 1994 Article: 27028 of rec.autos.vw Path: lynx.unm.edu!news.cs.indiana.edu!sdd.hp.com!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!news.umbc.edu!haven.umd.edu!umd5.umd.edu!bsospsyc151.umd.edu!user From: sobiloff@lap.umd.edu (Blake Sobiloff) Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw Subject: Re: [W] Brake Pads Followup-To: rec.autos.vw Date: Sat, 12 Feb 1994 16:54:15 -0500 Organization: Lab for Automation Psychology Lines: 24 Message-ID: References: <2jdr8eINNcsv@lynx.unm.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: bsospsyc151.umd.edu In article <2jdr8eINNcsv@lynx.unm.edu>, jan@camhpp12.ug.eds.com (Jan Vandenbrande) wrote: > In article keys@starchild.ncsl.nist.gov (Larry Keys) writes: > >We have Repco Deluxe on our Fox, and they have much less dust than the stock > >pads, but more dust than the MetalMasters. > > > I second Larry's comments. I hear (but have not yet tried) that Mintex > Silver-Something pads are the way to go now. I'm surprised that no one has mentioned pads made by Cool Carbon or Carbon Metallic. I use the Cool Carbon pads on my '85 GTI and love 'em. They cost me an arm and a leg, but I bought them before they were a standard production part for A2 cars; I'm sure prices have gone down since then. Their coefficient of friction is about the same as the stock pads when cold, and climbs to a peak which is higher than the Metal Masters. However, they don't grind your rotors into oblivion unless you race -- it takes a *lot* of breaking to get these pads above the Metal Master region. It seems that Carbon Metallic are more popular, but I think they're harder on your rotors. FWIW/YMMV. -- Blake Sobiloff | University of Maryland Laboratory for Automation Psychology | College Park, MD 20742-4411 Department of Psychology | 301/405-5936 (Voice) From keith_watson@rainbow.mentorg.com Mon Feb 14 14:13 PST 1994 Received: from mailer by fshpp1 with SMTP (16.8/16.2) id AA24678; Mon, 14 Feb 94 14:13:49 -0800 Return-Path: Received: from mgc.mentorg.com by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF V4.2-11 #3381) id <01H8VN1SBYOW00F9NV@UG.EDS.COM>; Mon, 14 Feb 1994 14:14:22 PDT Received: from rainbow.mentorg.com by mgc.mentorg.com with SMTP (16.6/15.5+MGC-TD 2.20) id AA02858; Mon, 14 Feb 94 14:14:45 -0800 Received: from wv.mentorg.com by rainbow.mentorg.com with SMTP (15.11.1.6/15.5+MGC-TD 2.08) id AA20377; Mon, 14 Feb 94 14:14:42 -0800 Received: from em-wv03.MENTORG.COM by wv.mentorg.com (8.6.4/CF5.11R) id OAA01393; Mon, 14 Feb 1994 14:14:40 -0800 Received: from golf.MENTORG.COM by em-wv03.MENTORG.COM (4.1/CF3.4) id AA10941; Mon, 14 Feb 94 14:14:34 PST Received: by golf.MENTORG.COM (1.37.109.4/CF3.4) id AA04855; Mon, 14 Feb 94 14:14:32 -0800 Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 14:14:32 -0800 From: keith_watson@rainbow.mentorg.com (Keith Watson) Subject: Re: [W] Brake Pads In-Reply-To: Jan Vandenbrande "Re: [W] Brake Pads" (Feb 14, 12:43) To: Jan Vandenbrande Cc: keith_watson@rainbow.mentorg.com Message-Id: <9402141414.ZM4853@golf> X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 X-Mailer: Z-Mail (2.1.4 02apr93) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <01H8VJX7PXBM0027OK@UG.EDS.COM> Status: RO > Same here. What pads would you recommend instead for regular street driving? > Mintex Silver-Something have been recommended to me several times. I've been concentrating and getting good pads for my Golf race car. MetalMasters would last 60 minutes and use up a set of rotors. Ferodo DS-11's would last 60 minutes and use up 1/2 the rotors. I'm finally using carbon-kevlar pads and they last 3 race weekends and are easy on the rotors. I haven't been looking into different street pads yet. New MetalMasters were put on my street car two years ago and there is very little wear on them. Even though there is a safety issue I don't want to just through them out. I'll probably try to use them up at a track day and then switch to something else. I have seen Mintex advertised and might try them. Otherwise, I don't have any recommendations. Keith Watson From lynx.unm.edu!news.cs.indiana.edu!babbage.ece.uc.edu!news.kei.com!eff!news.umbc.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!slip3-11.acs.ohio-state.edu!lsharkey Thu May 26 11:59:39 PDT 1994 Article: 32093 of rec.autos.vw Path: lynx.unm.edu!news.cs.indiana.edu!babbage.ece.uc.edu!news.kei.com!eff!news.umbc.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!slip3-11.acs.ohio-state.edu!lsharkey From: lsharkey@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Sharkman) Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw Subject: Re: [W] Metalmaster Squeal Date: Thu, 12 May 1994 20:47:24 UNDEFINED Organization: The Ohio State University Lines: 44 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <2qs4lm$sso@siesta.cs.wustl.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: slip3-11.acs.ohio-state.edu X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev B] In article <2qs4lm$sso@siesta.cs.wustl.edu> christos@siesta.cs.wustl.edu (Christos Papadopoulos) writes: >From: christos@siesta.cs.wustl.edu (Christos Papadopoulos) >Subject: Re: [W] Metalmaster Squeal >Date: 11 May 1994 21:35:34 -0500 >In article , >James A Giannotti wrote: >> Hi Folks, >> >> With all the recent talk about Repco's, I figured someone would be able to >>help me. I put new rotors and Repco Metalmasters on my GTI back in September, >>unfortunately, Rapid Parts was out of stock on the anti-rattle clips. So I >>reused the old ones. Brakes worked fine (occasional squeal, but no big deal). >>In March I finally got around to replacing the anti-rattle clips and for the >>last month they have begun to squeal almost consistantly. Should I've not >>replaced the anti-rattle clips at all? I thought these pad's were supposed to >>NOT squeal, has anyone had any similar experiences. Incidentally the brakes >>work great, and I'm not exactly gentle on them (Major Understatement!). >> Other than the semi-annoying squeal, I'm extremely satisfied w/ their >> performance! >> Just Wondering, > Well, mine squeal too! Not too much, just occasionally I can hear >a high-pitched squeal from them. I tried some of the Permatex Brake Quiet >(or whatever) and helped a bit, but it wasn't a complete solution. Mine >however, are only a few weeks old. I am just hoping it will go away. >Ditto about performance. >Christos. Can't add anything about squeal, but how about a really funny Metalmaster story? I put the Repcos on all four wheels of my wifes '82 Volvo wagon. The brakes are UNBELIEVABLE. That's also what the guy in the'87 RX-7 thought when I out braked him on the freeway and he destroyed his front end on my rear bumper. (NOTHING happend to the tank) He got out and said, "I started braking when you did, but my car just kept getting closer till I hit you." 3700 lbs of pure stopping power!! I've got metalmasters on all 3 of my cars. Leo From lynx.unm.edu!umn.edu!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!news.umbc.edu!haven.umd.edu!umd5.umd.edu!dataranch.lap.umd.edu!user Sun May 8 22:04:28 PDT 1994 Article: 31830 of rec.autos.vw Path: lynx.unm.edu!umn.edu!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!news.umbc.edu!haven.umd.edu!umd5.umd.edu!dataranch.lap.umd.edu!user From: sobiloff@mail.lap.umd.edu (Blake Sobiloff) Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw Subject: Re: [W] Aftermarket rotors for GLI? Followup-To: rec.autos.vw Date: Sun, 08 May 1994 19:55:24 -0400 Organization: Lab for Automation Psychology Lines: 23 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <2qceho$9gl@agate.berkeley.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: dataranch.lap.umd.edu In article <2qceho$9gl@agate.berkeley.edu>, tedcrum@garnet.berkeley.edu (Ted Crum) wrote: > The standard setup at aftermarket suppliers seems to be ATE (Teves) disks > and Metalmaster pads. Worked great for me, 40k mi ago. But the brakes > on these cars are marginal. Who's tried Cool Carbons on a 9.4 vented VW > brake? Hmm; I think it depends upon the year and model of car. I bought my parts through WolfSport and got Brembo rotors and Metalmaster pads. Anyway, I bought as set of Cool Carbons and wasn't that happy with them. I ordered them before they had pads for the rear as a stock item, and it took them almost three months to put material on my old backing plates. (I guess they're stocking them as a standard part now.) The backing plates for the front didn't fit well in the carrier and tended to bind the pads, making for very poor braking. The pads were quite nice to my rotors, though. Not worth the money, IMHO, unless you're road racing and having problems with fade. Certainly not worth it for autox! -- Blake Sobiloff | University of Maryland Laboratory for Automation Psychology | College Park, MD 20742-4411 Department of Psychology | 301/405-5936 (Voice) http://www.lap.umd.edu/PeopleFolder/Sobiloff.html From lynx.unm.edu!fmsrl7!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!pipex!uunet!optilink!walsh Mon Aug 9 10:21:28 PDT 1993 Article: 18657 of rec.autos.vw Path: lynx.unm.edu!fmsrl7!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!doc.ic.ac.uk!pipex!uunet!optilink!walsh From: walsh@optilink.COM (Mark Walsh) Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw Subject: Re: Brake pads for '86 GTI Message-ID: <16831@optilink.COM> Date: 6 Aug 93 20:43:46 GMT References: <23rugcINNdrf@lynx.unm.edu> Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA Lines: 44 >From article <23rugcINNdrf@lynx.unm.edu>, by jan@camhpp12.ug.eds.com (Jan Vandenbrande): > In article rgolen@UMASSD.EDU writes: >>>I have an '86 GTI that I bought used last year. It's coming up on time >>>to do a brake job, and I need to decide what kind of pads to get. The car >>>isn't driven hard, so good cold-stopping without excessive pedal effort is >>>more important than fade resistance. >>Get either Ferodo or Repco metallic pads. The stock pads have two >>major flaws. 1. No asbestos (bad for lungs....good for brakes), >>2. Federal Safety Standards mandate a maximum pedal effort >>for brakes, to achieve this, pads are made of a softer material. > Actually, in his case I would caution against either of those > two pads...they are hard pedalled and work only when real hot, > which means in normal city driving when you first apply the brakes > they "slide" before grabbing. OK for racing, not so for good cold > stopping. True of the Ferodo pads that I've used, but the Repco Metal Master pads are really nice this way. I've read that pedal effort is increased only 20% with them, so unless you have some horrendous medical problem, stopping a 2200 pound car with assisted brakes shouldn't be terribly difficult. The Metal Masters that I have bought don't have asbestos. As far as wear is concerned, the only pair that I've worn out was on the front of my '86 GLI, and it took 120,000 miles to wear them down. On the rear, they have 140,000 miles on them and are worn about a third of the way. Another nice thing about Metal Masters versus the Ferodos I had (on my 924) is that they don't waste the rotors so bad. I also noticed that when I replaced the stock pads on my 944 turbo with Repcos, the wheels were a lot easier to clean. In my opinion, either pad is far better than the stock ones which last a third as long, require more maintenence, cost more, score the rotors, fade under duress, and leave crud all over the wheels. -- Mark Walsh (walsh@optilink.com) -- UUCP: uunet!optilink!walsh Amateur Radio: KM6XU@WX3K -- AOL: BigCookie@aol.com -- USCF: L10861 "What, me worry?" - William M. Gaines, 1922-1992 "I'm gonna crush you!" - Andre the Giant, 1946-1993 From lynx.unm.edu!umn.edu!The-Star.honeywell.com!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!torn!mcshub!eisgen.dofasco.ca!qis.dofasco.ca!stulen_j Wed Aug 11 08:39:23 PDT 1993 Article: 18727 of rec.autos.vw Path: lynx.unm.edu!umn.edu!The-Star.honeywell.com!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!torn!mcshub!eisgen.dofasco.ca!qis.dofasco.ca!stulen_j Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw Subject: Re: Brake pads for '86 GTI Message-ID: <1993Aug10.115636.1@qis.dofasco.ca> From: stulen_j@qis.dofasco.ca Date: 10 Aug 93 11:56:36 EST References: <23rugcINNdrf@lynx.unm.edu> <16831@optilink.com> <246t6h$900@fido.asd.sgi.com> Organization: Dofasco Inc, Hamilton, Ont. Can. Nntp-Posting-Host: pcsdev Nntp-Posting-User: stulen_j Lines: 43 In article <246t6h$900@fido.asd.sgi.com>, thk@tyres.asd.sgi.com (Tom Kong) writes: 22> In article <16831@optilink.com> walsh@optilink.COM (Mark Walsh) writes: >>From article <23rugcINNdrf@lynx.unm.edu>, by jan@camhpp12.ug.eds.com (Jan Vandenbrande): >>> In article rgolen@UMASSD.EDU writes: >> > >>True of the Ferodo pads that I've used, but the Repco Metal Master >>pads are really nice this way. I've read that pedal effort is >>increased only 20% with them, so unless you have some horrendous >>medical problem, stopping a 2200 pound car with assisted brakes >>shouldn't be terribly difficult. >> > > > I second Mark's recommendation on Repco Metal Masters. They practically last > forever, don't squeak, and give much less brake dust. I've only noticed > that they required a bit more pedal pressure the very first time > I used them in cold mornings (in New Hampshire winters), after that > they are fine. I haven't noticed any problem here in California. > > In my '86 gti's 86K miles (with about 1.5K of track use), I've used > two sets of VW front pads, and I'm a little over half through my > second set of Repcos. I haven't had to replace my rotors, so rotor > wear shouldn't be a problem for most people. I've bought a set of > Mintex because I was in a hurry and couldn't find Repco's locally, > so I'll try that next. > > /tom > > > I would recommend Repco Metal Masters. I have them on my 87 GTI 8V. They have 65000 kms on them and are just about 3/4 gone. The rotors are worn, but they are the orignals, with 160000 kms on them. Pretty soon I gonna put on new MMs and new rotors. The pedal feel is great, is you ask me. My two bits worth. James From usc!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!mcshub!dofasco!usenet.dofasco.ca!jstulen Mon Oct 31 13:51:43 PST 1994 Article: 42072 of rec.autos.vw Path: usc!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!mcshub!dofasco!usenet.dofasco.ca!jstulen Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw Subject: Re: Repco Metal Masters Message-ID: From: jstulen@dcm.dofasco.ca (James Stulen) Date: Thu, 27 Oct 1994 12:21:13 References: <3876te$955@pipe1.pipeline.com> Organization: Dofasco Inc. Nntp-Posting-Host: mike_truckel.dofasco.ca X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev Final Beta #11] Lines: 38 >I installed Repco MM at the beginning of the summer and my experience has >been both good and bad. >The good part is that when these pads are up to temp. the performance is >unbeatable. >The bad part is that the pads must be up to temp. This is not that much of >a problem when driving in stop and go conditions. But on the highway the >pads could let you get yourself in a dangerous situation. >As for the brake dust, I haven't noticed any decrease. >Sean >garrick@eng.buffalo.edu Yes, yes ,yes. Remember with the MM pads that on the very first stop on a cold day, they give signifcantly less braking than expected (as when hot). Case in point... The other day on my way to work, some knob in a Le Sabre gets pissed off because I pass him in a 80km/h zone (I do signicantly more than 80 :)), so he decided to stick to my rear bumper (jerk, he was doing, like, 85 before I passed him). Well, this happens about 5 kms from my house, and I have only done maybe two light stops upto this point, and the outside temperature is about 9degC (50F). There's a 90 degree (pi/2 rad :)) corner coming up, which I know very well, so I decide to take him into it real fast. Which would have been fine, except, when I hit my braking point and stand on the brakes, there ain't much brakes to be had due to very cold MM pads! Fortunately, I had left my self some margin, I had to continue straight for a bit longer than planned and I missed the apex by about 8 feet, but I made it around the corner. Also, fortunately, dick head behind me slowed early and gave up after the corner. So, let that be a lesson to me and all who have MM pads, if you are planning on doing a tricky braking manuver, ask yourself first ARE MY BRAKES WARMED UP? if (true), go for it, else, take it easy, man. Cheers, James From usc!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!uunet!psinntp!greenwich.com!mark Fri Nov 4 15:03:36 PST 1994 Article: 42657 of rec.autos.vw Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw Path: usc!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!uunet!psinntp!greenwich.com!mark From: mark@greenwich.com (Mark Sirota) Subject: Re: Repco Metal Masters Message-ID: <1994Nov3.214115.9508@greenwich.com> Sender: news@greenwich.com Nntp-Posting-Host: marmaduke Organization: Greenwich Associates, Greenwich CT References: Date: Thu, 3 Nov 1994 21:41:15 GMT Lines: 43 In article ilh@lcs.mit.edu writes: > In article jstulen@dcm.dofasco.ca (James Stulen) writes: >> So, let that be a lesson to me and all who have MM pads, if you are planning >> on doing a tricky braking manuver, ask yourself first >> ARE MY BRAKES WARMED UP? >> if (true), go for it, >> else, take it easy, man. > > Sounds like a bad idea to have Repco MM then. Can you handle: > > If I'm planning on having to stop fast because kid darts in front of > car, ask yourself first ARE MY BRAKES WARMED UP? > if (true), I avoid kid, > else, kid loses. > > Are they really that bad? I'm considering getting them for my next pad > change, but all the talk about them being ineffective when cold has me > worried. I've done a *lot* of brake pad testing for the street and for autocrossing. In Finger Lakes Region, we used to have a sprint kart track that we'd race on, so I was able to do real comparisons on a fixed course on which I had hundreds of laps of experience. The fact of the matter is, stock pads work best -- for the street *and* for autocrossing. Repco Metalmasters and other high-performance pads work great for racetracks, but they just don't work as well when they're cold. Lee, you don't need to be afraid of any but the ultimate road-racing pads -- Metalmasters do work when they're cold, but require a *lot* more pedal effort. Factory pads are quite consistent, though they might overheat on a real racetrack. Metalmasters do create a dust that wipes off with water, which is definitely a bonus, but is it worth it? Note that I stopped racing my GTI at the end of the 1990 season, so I've never done any testing of the newer carbon-based pads. Someone else will have to comment on those. -- Mark Sirota, System and Network Manager Greenwich Associates, Greenwich Connecticut mark@greenwich.com, (203) 625-5060 From usc!math.ohio-state.edu!jussieu.fr!oleane!pipex!demon!betanews.demon.co.uk!news Thu Dec 1 10:22:24 PST 1994 Article: 44463 of rec.autos.vw Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw Path: usc!math.ohio-state.edu!jussieu.fr!oleane!pipex!demon!betanews.demon.co.uk!news From: Chris@dodkin.demon.co.uk (Chris Dodkin) Subject: Re: Jetta /// Brakes Message-ID: <24@dodkin.demon.co.uk> Sender: news@demon.co.uk (Usenet Administration) Nntp-Posting-Host: dodkin.demon.co.uk Reply-To: chris@dodkin.demon.co.uk Organization: chris dodkin References: <3bbgb8$i30@newstand.syr.edu> Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 10:34:16 GMT Lines: 26 In article <3bbgb8$i30@newstand.syr.edu> sbsnyder@mailbox.syr.edu (Stacey B. Snyder) writes: >I was just curious to see what other Jetta /// owners thought of the >brakes. My GLS has disc brakes on all four wheels, but I don't have >ABS. The brakes seem to be very weak to me. What do you think about the >Jetta ///'s? Stacey, I'm afraid all VW brake systems feel week when compared to other manufacturers. This may in fact be an advantage, as you tend to have more feel in the brakes, rather than locking up all four wheels as soon as you hit the pedal. I asked the test guy at my last yearly M.O.T. test how they checked out on the brake testing gear, and he reckoned they were well above average, with plenty of stopping power. I have found that replacing the standard pads with MINTEX 171 pads has improved the bite, and gives me great confidence when braking from speed, as they just keep on gripping without fading. Cheers, Chris. From usc!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!pipex!uunet!newsgw.mentorg.com!hpcan240.mentorg.com!wv.mentorg.com!kwatson Thu Dec 1 12:34:15 PST 1994 Article: 44737 of rec.autos.vw Path: usc!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!pipex!uunet!newsgw.mentorg.com!hpcan240.mentorg.com!wv.mentorg.com!kwatson From: kwatson@wv.mentorg.com (Keith Watson) Newsgroups: rec.autos.tech,rec.autos.vw Subject: Re: [W] 92 GTI brake problems (4 wheel disc): what else should I check? Date: 1 Dec 1994 19:24:01 GMT Organization: Mentor Graphics Lines: 60 Distribution: world Message-ID: <3bl7sh$cv5@hpcan240.mentorg.com> References: <3bg8k4$i49@bigboote.WPI.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: golf.mentorg.com Xref: usc rec.autos.tech:105161 rec.autos.vw:44737 In article <3bg8k4$i49@bigboote.WPI.EDU>, jmcelroy@wpi.edu (James McElroy Jr.) writes: |> I'm still plugging away at sub-optimal braking performance from my 92 |> GTI 16V. Basically, the problem is no matter how hard I press the |> brake pedal (or even if I pump it), I can't get the wheels to lock. |> |> So far I've done the following: |> Checked operation of f/r proportioning lever mounted to the |> rear axle. (Seems ok). |> |> Replaced rear brake pads (old ones were about gone), |> broke them in. Front |> and rear now have Mintex Silver Line pads |> |> Tried sanding front brake pads in case they were glazed, |> roughened up front rotors with steel wool. |> |> Bled the brakes (using a Mighty Vac hand pump). |> |> The pedal travel seems okay, and even after bleeding a few minutes |> ago, there was no change. So my next guess would be the pads/rotors, |> but the rear pads are brand new. |> |> Perhaps the cleaners I've been using on my wheels (Armor All Clean |> Start and/or Mother's California Gold Wheel Cleaner) could have coated |> the rotors? |> |> I'm off to buy some brake cleaner, but if anyone knows of something I |> might have overlooked, I'm all ears. >From what you mention, I'm going to assume the pads still aren't bedded in. New pads in the rear are only going to make the problem worse. When did the braking performance decrease? When you changed the front pads or has it decreased over time? Most of the braking performance comes from the front pads. An excellent example of this is my race Golf which needs new front pads every *60* minutes of track time. Bubbles in the brake fluid will normally give a mushy brake pedal. A hard brake pedal and no stopping power normally mean the pads aren't gripping. You need to get pads like MetalMasters, DS-11's, carbon/kevlar bedded in properly otherwise they won't work. These pads need to get good and hot all the way through and then be allowed to cool off. Just going out on the street and slowing down hard from 60mph 4 or 5 times is not enough. I know because I had this experience in my Porsche 911 once. It is not a good feeling being able to stand on the pedal and the wheels don't lock up. It is easy figuring out how much it takes to bed the brakes in my race car. It takes 2 or 3 laps at speed which means braking from speeds of 60mph to 100mph in 6 braking zones per lap. Then come off the track and don't let the car stand still. You don't want all of the heat staying at one spot on the rotors. I'ld recommend trying to bed the pads again. Slow down hard from 60mph 10 or 15 times and drag the brakes some too, then let the pads cool down. You know you have them hot enough if they smell just by standing next to the car. -- Keith Watson kwatson@wv.mentorg.com Mentor Graphics Corporation (Wilsonville, OR) 87 VW GTI 16V 85 VW Golf #32 - Conference Production H From usc!news.cerf.net!ccnet.com!uunet!pipex!demon!betanews.demon.co.uk!news Tue Dec 13 18:29:57 PST 1994 Article: 45532 of rec.autos.vw Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw Path: usc!news.cerf.net!ccnet.com!uunet!pipex!demon!betanews.demon.co.uk!news From: Chris@dodkin.demon.co.uk (Chris Dodkin) Subject: Re: Jetta /// Brakes Message-ID: <24@dodkin.demon.co.uk> Sender: news@demon.co.uk (Usenet Administration) Nntp-Posting-Host: dodkin.demon.co.uk Reply-To: chris@dodkin.demon.co.uk Organization: chris dodkin References: <3bbgb8$i30@newstand.syr.edu> Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 10:34:16 GMT Lines: 26 In article <3bbgb8$i30@newstand.syr.edu> sbsnyder@mailbox.syr.edu (Stacey B. Snyder) writes: >I was just curious to see what other Jetta /// owners thought of the >brakes. My GLS has disc brakes on all four wheels, but I don't have >ABS. The brakes seem to be very weak to me. What do you think about the >Jetta ///'s? Stacey, I'm afraid all VW brake systems feel week when compared to other manufacturers. This may in fact be an advantage, as you tend to have more feel in the brakes, rather than locking up all four wheels as soon as you hit the pedal. I asked the test guy at my last yearly M.O.T. test how they checked out on the brake testing gear, and he reckoned they were well above average, with plenty of stopping power. I have found that replacing the standard pads with MINTEX 171 pads has improved the bite, and gives me great confidence when braking from speed, as they just keep on gripping without fading. Cheers, Chris. Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw Subject: [W] Mintex Pads. First impressions... Summary: Followup-To: Distribution: world Organization: M&E (Division of EDS), Cypress CA Keywords: I finally got around to changing my front rotors (.3 mm away from the wear limit, so might as well), and the Mintex Silverline pads, both of which I bought at AutoTech a while back. [This is on a 90 Corrado G60] I am about 200 miles later, the rotors are close to getting worn in (the surface is now shiny smooth rather than "brushed") but I am a bit disappointed with the pads. They behave almost like the Repco MetalMasters. When cold, you just slide, when they are hot, real hot, they brake with competence. The pedal also feel rock hard now, but that may be purely because I moved some bubbles out when I pushed the pistons in. They are perhaps great for auto-x, but not for daily driving. I am not sure whether I am going to keep them and switch back to the original ones from VW. This is how I would perceptually graph out how the pads compare on hard stop from a good pace. Deacceleration Mintex ^ | + + + + + eye popping, but we had to wait a bit | + | + | + Its picking up | + | + |+ + AAAHHH, We are sliding, are we gonna make it +----------------------------> Time 60 mph 0 mph Deacceleration Stock VW Pads ^ | + + + + the eye thing |+ + + + + + |Grab + + + + | | slight fade, good thing I have slowed down enough by now | | +----------------------------> Time 60 mph 0 mph I have not measured how the resulting stopping distances compare. The thing though is that if you need to stop suddenly while moving slowly, the Mintex pads are going to be scary. What do you guys think? One of the things I am afraid of is that the pads sold here at VW may not be the same as the ones that came on the car. Anyone changed the pads and noticed any major difference on a Corrado G60? Gee, wouldn't this make a great EC article? ;-> From autox-owner@triumph.cs.utah.edu Wed Mar 22 07:24 PST 1995 Received: from mailer by fshpp1 with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA29201; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 07:24:10 -0800 Return-Path: Received: from triumph.cs.utah.edu by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #4) id <01HOFFIFJ5KW004GVQ@UG.EDS.COM>; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 07:22:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by triumph.cs.utah.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6) id JAA08863 for autox-outgoing; Wed, 22 Mar 1995 09:33:20 -0500 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 09:33:17 -0500 From: RandyWltrz@aol.com Subject: Re: VW Brake Pads? Sender: owner-autox@triumph.cs.utah.edu To: autox@autox.team.net Reply-To: RandyWltrz@aol.com Message-Id: <950322093315_57340847@aol.com> X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Precedence: bulk Status: RO On Tues. March 21 Mannix Wrote: >Hi all - couple of quick questions for you. First, what would those >of you familiar with VW GTIs/similar autos recommend for >brake pads for both light autox and street driving? I am >looking for a good compromise between performance and >longevity - I do not mind going through a set of >pads every few months, as a ballpark - any insights? The stock factory VW pads would be best for your needs. You have full braking immediately, without having to warm em up. They work better than anything else I've tried when they're cold, and have the most grip as well. Life is long, but they're dusty. If you really want a performance pad, go with the Performance Friction Carbon Metallic street compound from Techtonics. I currently have these on my DSP Golf GTI, They heat up quickly, feel much like the factory pads, and are extremely easy on the rotors!! They're great for autocross and racetrack duty too. I've previously tried Repco Metal Masters and the Deluxe's, but niether of these worked well at all, and they chewed up my rotors real bad to boot. By the time they heated up enough to actually slow me down, I was already getting back in line. Randy 85 DSP GTi Article 55092 of rec.autos.vw: Path: usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news.ultranet.com!zombie.ncsc.mil!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!in1.uu.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: randywltrz@aol.com (RandyWltrz) Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw Subject: Re: [W] Brake pad comparison Date: 29 Mar 1995 02:15:58 -0500 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 49 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <3lb1fe$lbc@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <1995Mar27.221520.36411@ac.dal.ca> Reply-To: randywltrz@aol.com (RandyWltrz) Jason Elliot Adams writes: >>What do all you guys think about carbon metallic pads? I believe they >> are semimetallic with carbon fiber?? I think I'm going to try a set on >> my 87 GTI this summer the price is about 50% more than stock, not too >> bad. I'll let you know how they work if I get them. I run the Performance Friction Carbon Metallic pads on my competition 85 GTi, and they're better than my old MM's. They heat up quicker and are way easier on the rotors, which after about 8 months are still suprisingly very smooth, with no grooves or warping. They feel much like the factory pads, which I have on my Jetta GLi. They give off a little less dust than the factory pads also, but more than MM's. As for the price, I bought mine from Techtonics for $60.00 for the fronts, but other "racing brakes" suppliers wanted over $100.00 !! >> While on the subject of pads, what about rotors? I'm not looking for fancy >> cross drilled things because quite frankly I don't think there worth it. >> So my question rests with is there any difference between different >> manufacturers of rotors? Are the 'throw away' type as good as >> returnable? Just wondering as I'm facing a big brake job >>(well at least to me). >> Jason Adams >> 87GTI 8V I've bought cheap Brazilian's for $26.00, and German ones for $35.00, and I've noticed no difference in quality, and have never had any problems with any of 'em. You can expect to get them turned once or twice before they're down to their minimum thickness. And you're right about the drilled rotors, I've tried 'em, they made a funny swishy noise, with no improvement in braking performance at all. Stick with the regular rotors. Do Not get them from the dealer, they're the same as all the aftermarket ones, but at triple the price. Randy W. El Segundo, So. Cal. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------- Article 3506 of rec.autos.vw: Relay-Version: ANU News - V6.1B9 05/16/94 VAX/VMS V1.5; site bbs.ug.eds.com Path: bbs.ug.eds.com!news.cerf.net!mvb.saic.com!news.alpha.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!in1.uu.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw Subject: Re: [W] Brake pad comparison Message-ID: <3lb1fe$lbc@newsbf02.news.aol.com> From: randywltrz@aol.com (RandyWltrz) Date: 29 Mar 1995 02:15:58 -0500 Reply-To: randywltrz@aol.com (RandyWltrz) Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com References: <1995Mar27.221520.36411@ac.dal.ca> Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 49 Jason Elliot Adams writes: >>What do all you guys think about carbon metallic pads? I believe they >> are semimetallic with carbon fiber?? I think I'm going to try a set on >> my 87 GTI this summer the price is about 50% more than stock, not too >> bad. I'll let you know how they work if I get them. I run the Performance Friction Carbon Metallic pads on my competition 85 GTi, and they're better than my old MM's. They heat up quicker and are way easier on the rotors, which after about 8 months are still suprisingly very smooth, with no grooves or warping. They feel much like the factory pads, which I have on my Jetta GLi. They give off a little less dust than the factory pads also, but more than MM's. As for the price, I bought mine from Techtonics for $60.00 for the fronts, but other "racing brakes" suppliers wanted over $100.00 !! >> While on the subject of pads, what about rotors? I'm not looking for fancy >> cross drilled things because quite frankly I don't think there worth it. >> So my question rests with is there any difference between different >> manufacturers of rotors? Are the 'throw away' type as good as >> returnable? Just wondering as I'm facing a big brake job >>(well at least to me). >> Jason Adams >> 87GTI 8V I've bought cheap Brazilian's for $26.00, and German ones for $35.00, and I've noticed no difference in quality, and have never had any problems with any of 'em. You can expect to get them turned once or twice before they're down to their minimum thickness. And you're right about the drilled rotors, I've tried 'em, they made a funny swishy noise, with no improvement in braking performance at all. Stick with the regular rotors. Do Not get them from the dealer, they're the same as all the aftermarket ones, but at triple the price. Randy W. El Segundo, So. Cal. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------- From autox-owner@triumph.cs.utah.edu Mon Apr 10 11:01 PDT 1995 Received: from mailer by fshpp1 with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA12011; Mon, 10 Apr 1995 11:01:08 -0700 Return-Path: Received: from triumph.cs.utah.edu by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #4) id <01HP66A83I80008DQO@UG.EDS.COM>; Mon, 10 Apr 1995 10:49:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by triumph.cs.utah.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6) id NAA03340 for autox-outgoing; Mon, 10 Apr 1995 13:04:19 -0400 Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 13:01:38 -0400 From: richard welty Subject: Re: Brake pads and grooves. In-Reply-To: message from Wayne Cox on Fri, 7 Apr 1995 10:18:36 -0400 (EDT) Sender: owner-autox@triumph.cs.utah.edu To: wcox@bob.wittenberg.edu Cc: autox@autox.team.net Reply-To: richard welty Message-Id: <199504101701.NAA27473@homer.balltown.cma.com> X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Precedence: bulk Status: RO * The Nissan pads *for my SE-R are tapered off on the leading and trailing edges and have a *long diagonal groove across the face. these pads have been chamfered (chamfering being the beveling of the edges), probably in an effort to prevent squeal. * Really bad aftermarket pads *(beck-arnley??) had a perpendicular groove. i agree that beck-arnley pads really suck, but you will also see the perpendicular groove in ATE and Ferodo street compound pads, both of which are common and very decent euro OE type pads. *I assumed grooves were primarilly for water expulsion; since I didn't have *any wet performance probs with the solid pads I wasn't concerned. nope; they're fade prevention measures. * What about the gas under the pad prob that was mentioned? What are *the symptoms of this? Should I assume Nissan knows best and groove tmy *Repcos to match? it can't hurt; the big caution is that you should never ever try and groove old asbestos pads (it's not because it's a technical problem with the application of the pads; it's mostly because you don't want to breath that stuff when the fibers start flying.) cheers, richard ----------------------------------------------- Message 5/212 from Andy Jun 16 '95 at 11:55 pm Return-Path: Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 23:55:10 -0300 Subject: performance faq addition To: jan@UG.EDS.COM (Jan Vandenbrande) X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24alpha3] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 4342 Status: RO About REPCOS: I have Repco Metal Masters on my 85 GTI for several years now. I personally like the pads but you do have to watch the first several stops. You have to warm them up before you drive normally. 2 stops will do, or simply left foot brake for several seconds and they are fine, like stock pads. I do notice a difference however on twisty roads that require braking. The pads don't fade at all comapred to the stock pads. What about long highway trips you might ask? I drove for an hour or more without using the brakes and when I did, there was no reduced performance, so they are like stock. Another advantage is when I exit the highway and brake on the ramp from 130km/h to 0km. I find the pedal feel excellent and no fade at all. These pads do not warm enough to give auto-x advantages but are great on the track. So depending on what you are looking for, it may be tha pad for you. Also hear rumours that mintex pads are between stock and the metal masters, but I did not try them yet. From dixonl@sfu.ca Mon Jun 26 19:04 PDT 1995 Received: from mailer by fshpp1 with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA28648; Mon, 26 Jun 1995 19:04:05 -0700 Return-Path: Received: from ferrari.sfu.ca by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #4) id <01HS67X2Q9YO00AIXK@UG.EDS.COM>; Mon, 26 Jun 1995 19:02:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from @popserver.sfu.ca (rs38-annex3.sfu.ca [142.58.123.77]) by ferrari.sfu.ca with SMTP (8.6.11/SFU-2.6H) id TAA21721 for (from dixonl@sfu.ca); Mon, 26 Jun 1995 19:05:38 -0700 Date: Mon, 26 Jun 1995 19:05:38 -0700 From: dixonl@sfu.ca (Dixon Low) Subject: Corrado Brakes etc. X-Sender: dixonl@popserver.sfu.ca To: jan@UG.EDS.COM Message-Id: <199506270205.TAA21721@ferrari.sfu.ca> X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO I decided to send you a message directly since it appears on the Corrado mailing list that you are one of the most knowledgable. First, to answer you question about rear brakes disappearing faster than fronts. YES, I am bringing my '93 VR6 (In Canada it was one of the earlier VR6 models, it could be '92 in the U.S.) to get rear brakes done tomorrow. I have only driven 40,000 kilometers. That's about 25,000 miles only. Is something wrong, I don't know. Fronts still have about 50% I guess. I have a question for you: Have you ever noticed that your Corrado gets more rumbly with road noise after about say 40,000 kilometers? I guess it is the tires wearing down. My '86 GTI used to make lots of tire noise in the back after a while. Have you noticed similar things? Second question: Does your air conditioner make growling/whirring sounds especially after some heavy traffic (stop and go traffic)? My purrs/growls every now and then. I don't think it is just when the compressor kicks in either. And I believe it drags on the car more whenever I turn it on, much more than when new. Thanks for any help you might have. From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Tue Jun 27 09:49 PDT 1995 Received: from mailer by fshpp1 with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA04798; Tue, 27 Jun 1995 09:49:02 -0700 Return-Path: Received: from desiree.teleport.com by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #4) id <01HS72T7WNB4009J84@UG.EDS.COM>; Tue, 27 Jun 1995 09:46:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) id JAA21825 for corrado-l-outgoing; Tue, 27 Jun 1995 09:38:27 -0700 Received: from decws3.coe.wvu.edu (decws3.coe.wvu.edu [157.182.83.23]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA21814 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 1995 09:38:23 -0700 Received: by decws3.coe.wvu.edu (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA12790; Tue, 27 Jun 95 12:36:03 -0400 Date: Tue, 27 Jun 1995 12:36:02 -0400 (EDT) From: ja@decws3.coe.wvu.edu (John Anderson) Subject: Re: '92 slc brakes - squuuuee In-Reply-To: <8AC0521.03E801A7D1.uuout@syncomm.com>; from "TOM TRAWINSKI" at Jun 26, 95 9:53 pm Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com To: corrado-l@teleport.com Reply-To: corrado-l@teleport.com Message-Id: <9506271636.AA12790@decws3.coe.wvu.edu> X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Precedence: bulk Status: RO > Sounds like a stupid piece of advice to me. I agree > > MS>at 43k miles, do I need new pads? > > MS>Matthew Shobe > Matthew, > > To my knowledge, squealing brakes do NOT mean worn out pads, but rather > the pads are slighly shimmying in the pad carriers. The solution is to apply > either a small amount of lithium grease or some type of anti-squeak > Tom Well, I disagree with Tom on lithium grease, it has a very bad wear properties and a very low melting point, get a tube of "caliper grease" particularly designed for high temp application. I've never had much luck getting rid of brake squeal on many different VW's, I've tried the aerosol and tube Anti-Squeal stuff from a number of reputable manufacturers, plus I've religiously cleaned and greased all sliding contact points, and still squeal, as VW once said, it means they work quit worrying about it. And although squeal is not usually an indicator of wear, at 43,000 I would definitely check them, my rear pads were pretty much gone at 35,000 and the fronts by 40,000, replaced with Mintex Silverlines with mixed results, when I do it again I will go back to OEM or maybe Repco Deluxe. John ja@coe.wvu.edu '71 Westy, '90 G60 From lynx.unm.edu!umn.edu!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!nigel.msen.com!yale.edu!yale!gumby!calvin!ursa!jtong73 Fri Aug 6 14:32:00 PDT 1993 Article: 18604 of rec.autos.vw Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw Path: lynx.unm.edu!umn.edu!news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!math.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!nigel.msen.com!yale.edu!yale!gumby!calvin!ursa!jtong73 From: jtong73@ursa.calvin.edu (Joanna Tong) Subject: Re: Brake pads for '86 GTI Message-ID: Sender: news@calvin.edu (News ID) Organization: Calvin College References: <23pan2$2ot@pyrhard2.eng.pyramid.com> Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1993 18:09:36 GMT Lines: 49 In article rgolen@UMASSD.EDU writes: >In article <23pan2$2ot@pyrhard2.eng.pyramid.com>, andrem@pyramid.com (Andre Molyneux) writes: >> >>I have an '86 GTI that I bought used last year. It's coming up on time >>to do a brake job, and I need to decide what kind of pads to get. The car >>isn't driven hard, so good cold-stopping without excessive pedal effort is >>more important than fade resistance. >> >>The current pads (I don't know what kind they are) fit the bill quite >>nicely, with one annoying side effect - they produce tons of dust. Within >>two or three days after a wash, the front wheels are coated in a dark brown powder. Can someone suggest some pads that fit the criteria above without >>making the wheels look quite so bad? (I expect some dust, but I've never >>seen pads that make this much before). > > >Get either Ferodo or Repco metallic pads. The stock pads have two >major flaws. 1. No asbestos (bad for lungs....good for brakes), >2. Federal Safety Standards mandate a maximum pedal effort >for brakes, to achieve this, pads are made of a softer material. > >The bottom line is shitty brake pads and shitty dust. > >The metallic pads will cure some of the dust problem...you >can never get away from all of it, and will give you >better, fade resistant, braking. The down side is that >you will cause a higher rate of wear to your discs. > >Autotech, Rapid Parts, and APS all have the pads as well >as packages which include the disks. It should cost you >around $130 or so for pads to do front and rear, as well >as new front discs from these places. > [ stuff deleted]> >Ric >> >>+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ >>| Andre Molyneux KA7WVV "Insert your favorite disclaimer here" | I should add something to what Ric says that I first experienced this week. I upgraded my brakes to Pbr Metalmasters and the 9.4" vented discs from wolfsport. They work well, but you have to stop several times to warm them up before they start to work well. Very little brake dust vis a vis my old stock Vw pads with these metalmasters. This week my brakes first started squealing though. I don't mind too much (minor irritation) for the extra braking they give. So keep the squeal factor in mind. Peter Tong From eafg034@ea.oac.uci.edu Sun Dec 4 13:03 PST 1994 Received: from mailer by fshpp1 with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA25601; Sun, 4 Dec 1994 13:03:26 -0800 Return-Path: Received: from rigel.oac.uci.edu by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #4) id <01HK8VWAKWAO003C6F@UG.EDS.COM>; Sun, 04 Dec 1994 13:02:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by rigel.oac.uci.edu id AA11852 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for jan@ug.eds.com) ; Sun, 4 Dec 1994 12:57:53 -0800 Date: Sun, 04 Dec 1994 12:57:53 -0800 (PST) From: Deanna Westra Subject: Re: Replacing Front Brakes (fwd) To: jan@UG.EDS.COM Message-Id: X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Date: Sat, 03 Dec 1994 18:15:53 -0800 (PST) From: Jan Vandenbrande Subject: Re: Replacing Front Brakes (fwd) > Have you noticed any improvement with the Mintex pads? I suppose if > you only changed the rears then it might not have too much of an effect. > Since the pads are relatively inexpensive, I was thinking of replacing > the fronts. I hope that would produce less brake dust and make cleaning > the wheels a bit easier in addition to producing less brake fade. > > Gary I have only done the rears so far (on the G60), because oddly enough, on both COrrados the rears are wearing out first. Strange, strange. In all honesty, I did not notice any difference with new Mintex rear pads. Because the rear pads never produced that much dust, I did not see much of a difference in that either. My fronts have about 5-10k miles left (according to my calculations), and after measuring the rotor thicknesses, it looks like it is time to replace those as well (they are with 3/10 mm away from the wear limit which is 20 mm or something -- it's stamped on the rotors, so it isn't worth getting them turned). Both Corrados (~42k & 50k miles) show similar wear. -- o ___|___ | Jan Vandenbrande __0 /\0/ /-------\ [\\] | jan@ug.eds.com \<,_ O \\ (_________) | (_)/ (_) // [_] [_] | Cute .sig under construction From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Tue Jul 11 11:14 PDT 1995 Received: from mailer by fshpp1 with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA20150; Tue, 11 Jul 1995 11:14:12 -0700 Return-Path: Received: from desiree.teleport.com by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #4) id <01HSQPVM5A1C000QAK@UG.EDS.COM>; Tue, 11 Jul 1995 11:12:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) id LAA12260 for corrado-l-outgoing; Tue, 11 Jul 1995 11:07:29 -0700 Received: from mail04.mail.aol.com (mail04.mail.aol.com [152.163.172.53]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA12088 for ; Tue, 11 Jul 1995 11:07:00 -0700 Received: by mail04.mail.aol.com (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA218245985; Tue, 11 Jul 1995 14:06:25 -0400 Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 14:06:25 -0400 From: TurboTim@aol.com Subject: Re: Brake Pads Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com To: corrado-l@teleport.com Reply-To: corrado-l@teleport.com Message-Id: <950711140622_30426571@aol.com> X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Precedence: bulk Status: RO In a message dated 95-07-11 02:42:06 EDT, snoopy writes : > The GTI >is lighter, so there would be a larger safety margin before fade sets in. > So the lighter model would take longer to reach optimal operating temp compared to the much heavier Passat. Many times the heavy models just get larger brakes. BTW - Just got a fax from BBA. The 9 and 10" brakes are offered in 4 different compounds. Still checking on the 11" ones. The rears are only in 1 compound. For you tec nuts these are all rated on a M_ _ _ _ system. 4 digit rating each one has a complete list of specs which I will try to make into a FAQ all by itself. (help Jan) **TT** From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Mon Jul 10 11:12 PDT 1995 Received: from mailer by fshpp1 with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA27170; Mon, 10 Jul 1995 11:12:11 -0700 Return-Path: Received: from desiree.teleport.com by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #4) id <01HSPBIQLVFK000UHQ@UG.EDS.COM>; Mon, 10 Jul 1995 11:10:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) id LAA28988 for corrado-l-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jul 1995 11:05:23 -0700 Received: from emout04.mail.aol.com (emout04.mail.aol.com [198.81.10.12]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA28920 for ; Mon, 10 Jul 1995 11:05:14 -0700 Received: by emout04.mail.aol.com (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA078229280; Mon, 10 Jul 1995 14:01:21 -0400 Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 14:01:21 -0400 From: TurboTim@aol.com Subject: Re: Brake Pads Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com To: corrado-l@teleport.com Reply-To: corrado-l@teleport.com Message-Id: <950710140120_111710074@aol.com> X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Precedence: bulk Status: RO In a message dated 95-07-07 04:37:14 EDT, you write: Tim says: >> They are now using Mintex redbox which are designed for each >> specific model. The compounds will vary for each model. Snoopy says: >Meaning different compounds for each model of car? That >doesn't seem to make any sense. Why would it not make sense? A VR6 Passat wagen would need a different compound than a Golf GTI.Both have the same size rotors and pads. What happens is that compounds that are made for the heavier models become the high performance compounds for the lighter models. But for most street use the proper compound will work fine and will be more tailored to each models weight and design. Will let you know how Mintex compounds are designed once we are finished testing them. >Street use isn't serious? Street driving is a lot more dangerous than racing. You seem to have missed the point!! Serious means hard street use and race use since most owners don't ever drive on a track and barelly get the brakes hot I would not consider them seriouslly using there brake system. **TT** From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Thu Jul 6 11:16 PDT 1995 Received: from mailer by fshpp1 with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA09341; Thu, 6 Jul 1995 11:16:37 -0700 Return-Path: Received: from desiree.teleport.com by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #4) id <01HSJQIXQIYO0009KH@UG.EDS.COM>; Thu, 06 Jul 1995 11:14:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) id LAA15399 for corrado-l-outgoing; Thu, 6 Jul 1995 11:10:35 -0700 Received: from mail04.mail.aol.com (mail04.mail.aol.com [152.163.172.53]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA15308 for ; Thu, 6 Jul 1995 11:10:21 -0700 Received: by mail04.mail.aol.com (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA251784187; Thu, 6 Jul 1995 14:09:47 -0400 Date: Thu, 06 Jul 1995 14:09:47 -0400 From: TurboTim@aol.com Subject: Re: Brake Pads Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com To: corrado-l@teleport.com Reply-To: corrado-l@teleport.com Message-Id: <950706140946_109167480@aol.com> X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Precedence: bulk Status: RO In a message dated 95-07-05 21:07:43 EDT, Fabien writes: > I am in need of new brake pads for my 92 Corrado slc. I was wondering if >anyone could tell me what they believe to be the best( front and rear >combination might be diferent??) brand. I curently don't autox, but I do race >a lot on the street, and want pads that don't fade as easy as the stock pads. >Has anyone tried putting different brands on the front and rear, and how does >it work? We are going to be testing a few new pad compounds from Mintex. The export manager from BBA friction (mintex-don-textar) came out to visit a few weeks ago and wants us to test a couple compounds. The have a high performance range that is used by many tuners in Europe. BBA is the largest friction manufacturer in Europe and one of the largest in the world. They use to own part of Repco but sold off their shares. They are OE on many of the european cars. The Mintex Silverline is a good pad as it does not have the cold problems metalmasters do. They made the Silverline just for the US market and have dumped it. They are now using Mintex redbox which are designed for each specific model. The compounds will vary for each model. These will probally be perfect for the normal street use as the high performance range will be for the more serious driver. Will let you all know how the testing goes. **TT** From TurboTim@aol.com Fri Aug 4 17:37 PDT 1995 Received: from mailer by fshpp1 with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA23016; Fri, 4 Aug 1995 17:37:40 -0700 Return-Path: Received: from mail02.mail.aol.com by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #4) id <01HTOM9DIXGW000GF4@UG.EDS.COM>; Fri, 04 Aug 1995 17:34:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail02.mail.aol.com (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA005022887; Fri, 4 Aug 1995 20:34:47 -0400 Date: Fri, 04 Aug 1995 20:34:47 -0400 From: TurboTim@aol.com Subject: Re: Another one on Mintex! NOT To: jan@UG.EDS.COM Message-Id: <950804203413_48220542@aol.com> X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO In a message dated 95-08-03 16:38:22 EDT, you write: >Article 70235 (59 more) in rec.autos.vw: >Subject: Re: [W] Mintex Pads >From: ja@coe.wvu.edu (John Anderson) >Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 15:06:11 GMT >Organization: WVU >Nntp-Posting-Host: decws3.coe.wvu.edu >Lines: 27 > >In article <3vcgl2$803@news.service.uci.edu>, mrkim@apollo.adcom.uci.edu >(Micha >el Kim) writes: >|> It's time for a brake pad change finally, and was curious >|> what people think about the Mintex Silver pads. The archives >|> seem only to mention Repcos, and only touched on the Mintex. >|> >|> Does anyone have any personal experience with Mintex? Comparable >|> with Repcos or should I stick with the Repcos? >|> >Having used Mintex on the G60 for about a year now I would go with >them over MetalMasters for one major reason, I think they have profoundly >less dust. I think their cold response is marginally better than >MetalMasters >but they seemed to me to take an abnormaly long time to get broken in >even after many proper break in runs and cooling cycles the day of >installation >for the first month, the first couple stops were always unsure, they got >better >though. The manufacture and fit were similar to Repco, not as nice as OEM >Jurid. Frankly I've decided after these go, I'm returning to OEM or maybe >Repco Deluxe, I really don't subjectively feel one gains enough with these >to be worth the poor cold response. One more thing, I think they are much >worse than OEM when wet, never unsafe mind you, just seem to take longer to >burn off the water when you have been driving interstate speeds and not on >the >brakes much, though this could be attributed to their being cold as well. >Anyway, no worse than MetalMasters and less dust IMHO, certainly much much >less >dust than stock pads, price is right too from New Dimensions and the others. > >John >ja@coe.wvu.edu >'90 G60 Mintex USA has dumped the Silverline compound and will be replacing it with a compound like stock. Mintex is part of BBA. BBA is one of the worlds largest brake manufacturer. The brands owned by them are Mintex - Don - Textar. Textar is OEM on many German autos including VW. We have a special 11.5" brake system from Volkswagen we are testing for them. These may be stock on the 96 VR6 models. The rears pads are Textar and the fronts are Ferodo. ND will be selling a High Performance range of pads that address the problems of cold and wet weather that John writes about. Breaking in the pads can be a big part of the problem and may be why Mintex has changed the program. They only made this compound for the US market. Now they will use different compounds. Listed below is what Mintex says about the Silverline pads in regard to breaking them in. Bedding In Procedures Metallic pads such as Mintex Silverline require a bedding-in which, when done correctly, eliminates problems that may be encountered when installing high quality performance pads. First, it is important to inform the customer that metallic pads should not be installed on a vehicle with worn rotors. A soft, organic pad will conform to the grooves in a worn rotor while a metallic pad will not. It is therefore essential to either replace or turn rotors when installing Mintex Silverline pads. After installing Mintex Silverline pads they should be bedded-in to insure top performance. The procedure is quick and simple. A. Accelerate to approximately 40 m.p.h. and apply the brakes with moderate pedal pressure. B. Slow to approximately 5 m.p.h. C. Repeat this procedure 10 times allowing 1/3 of a mile between stops. D. Do not attempt to bed-in pads by driving the vehicle with the brakes constantly applied. This will damage the pads and result in decreased performance. **TT** Article 1255 of rec.autos.vw: Relay-Version: ANU News - V6.1B9 05/16/94 VAX/VMS V6.1; site bbs.ug.eds.com Path: bbs.ug.eds.com!nntp2.cerf.net!louie.disney.com!netline-fddi.jpl.nasa.gov!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!gatech!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!noc.near.net!news3.near.net!bigboote.WPI.EDU!wpi.WPI.EDU!jmcelroy Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw Subject: Re: [W] Mintex Pads Message-ID: <3vj1ce$a8@bigboote.WPI.EDU> From: jmcelroy@wpi.edu (James McElroy) Date: 31 Jul 1995 16:46:06 GMT References: <3vcgl2$803@news.service.uci.edu> <3vebrn$nj2@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <3vhets$27t@beyond.escape.com> Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute NNTP-Posting-Host: wpi.wpi.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Lines: 22 Michael Mattera (mmattera@escape.com) wrote: : I have used the Repco MM's for two years and they were great. Recently I : tried the Mintex pads and am very unhappy with their performance. They : take a long time to warm up and will produce some very scary experiences : in the beginning. The Repcos are (I think) a little better at stopping, : but I am still in search for the ultimate street pad. I may try the : performance friction brand next pad change. I've been running the Mintex for 45,000 miles on my GTI and I love them. I chose them over the MM because I was told by Autotech (where I bought them) that they have better fade resistance and warm up *quicker* than MM's. Since then I've started reading r.a.vw and have come to doubt anything Autotech claims, but I have been happy with the pads... They do take a bit to warm up, but they aren't useless cold, just not as grippy as they are warm. Also, I've got 97,500 miles on my rotors and they're still in great shape. -- James McElroy jmcelroy@wpi.edu 92 GTI 16V, 97.5k miles. Article 1361 of rec.autos.vw: Relay-Version: ANU News - V6.1B9 05/16/94 VAX/VMS V6.1; site bbs.ug.eds.com Path: bbs.ug.eds.com!nntp2.cerf.net!louie.disney.com!netline-fddi.jpl.nasa.gov!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!news.compuserve.com!news.production.compuserve.com!news Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw Subject: Re: [W] Mintex Pads Message-ID: <3vk5n8$5la$1@mhade.production.compuserve.com> From: Randy <76412.3441@CompuServe.COM> Date: 1 Aug 1995 03:06:16 GMT References: <3vj1ce$a8@bigboote.WPI.EDU> Organization: CompuServe, Inc. (1-800-689-0736) Lines: 6 Watch out for the carbon (kevlar, etc) pads. I've tried two compounds from Porterfield and both have destroyed my rotors and left deposits on the wheels that refused to come off. I'm picking up my wheels tomorrow that were acid dipped and repainted just to get the deposits from brakes off. They sure do stop good though. Maybe there is a street compound that's friendlier. Article 1486 of rec.autos.vw: Relay-Version: ANU News - V6.1B9 05/16/94 VAX/VMS V6.1; site bbs.ug.eds.com Path: bbs.ug.eds.com!nntp2.cerf.net!news.cerf.net!newsserver.sdsc.edu!nic-nac.CSU.net!news.Cerritos.edu!news.Arizona.EDU!CS.Arizona.EDU!noao!ncar!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw Subject: Re: [W] Mintex Pads Message-ID: <3vug6o$9b5@newsbf02.news.aol.com> From: turbotim@aol.com (TurboTim) Date: 4 Aug 1995 21:06:32 -0400 Reply-To: turbotim@aol.com (TurboTim) Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com References: Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com Lines: 97 >In article <3vcgl2$803@news.service.uci.edu>, mrkim@apollo.adcom.uci.edu >(Micha >el Kim) writes: >|> It's time for a brake pad change finally, and was curious >|> what people think about the Mintex Silver pads. The archives >|> seem only to mention Repcos, and only touched on the Mintex. >|> >|> Does anyone have any personal experience with Mintex? Comparable >|> with Repcos or should I stick with the Repcos? >|> >Having used Mintex on the G60 for about a year now I would go with >them over MetalMasters for one major reason, I think they have profoundly >less dust. I think their cold response is marginally better than >MetalMasters >but they seemed to me to take an abnormaly long time to get broken in >even after many proper break in runs and cooling cycles the day of >installation >for the first month, the first couple stops were always unsure, they got >better >though. The manufacture and fit were similar to Repco, not as nice as OEM >Jurid. Frankly I've decided after these go, I'm returning to OEM or maybe >Repco Deluxe, I really don't subjectively feel one gains enough with these >to be worth the poor cold response. One more thing, I think they are much >worse than OEM when wet, never unsafe mind you, just seem to take longer to >burn off the water when you have been driving interstate speeds and not on >the >brakes much, though this could be attributed to their being cold as well. >Anyway, no worse than MetalMasters and less dust IMHO, certainly much much >less >dust than stock pads, price is right too from New Dimensions and the others. > >John >ja@coe.wvu.edu >'90 G60 Mintex USA has dumped the Silverline compound and will be replacing it with a compound like stock. Mintex is part of BBA. BBA is one of the worlds largest brake manufacturer. The brands owned by them are Mintex - Don - Textar. Textar is OEM on many German autos including VW. We have a special 11.5" brake system from Volkswagen we are testing for them. These may be stock on the 96 VR6 models. The rears pads are Textar and the fronts are Ferodo. ND will be selling a High Performance range of pads that address the problems of cold and wet weather that John writes about. Breaking in the pads can be a big part of the problem and may be why Mintex has changed the program. They only made this compound for the US market. Now they will use different compounds. Listed below is what Mintex says about the Silverline pads in regard to breaking them in. Bedding In Procedures Metallic pads such as Mintex Silverline require a bedding-in which, when done correctly, eliminates problems that may be encountered when installing high quality performance pads. First, it is important to inform the customer that metallic pads should not be installed on a vehicle with worn rotors. A soft, organic pad will conform to the grooves in a worn rotor while a metallic pad will not. It is therefore essential to either replace or turn rotors when installing Mintex Silverline pads. After installing Mintex Silverline pads they should be bedded-in to insure top performance. The procedure is quick and simple. A. Accelerate to approximately 40 m.p.h. and apply the brakes with moderate pedal pressure. B. Slow to approximately 5 m.p.h. C. Repeat this procedure 10 times allowing 1/3 of a mile between stops. D. Do not attempt to bed-in pads by driving the vehicle with the brakes constantly applied. This will damage the pads and result in decreased performance. ** Turbotim ** ** Second Generation BBS ** Headquarters for Audi and H20 VW Owners ** (408) 980-8830 (2 lines) 24 hours ********* Current Vehicle Fleet *********** ** 95 Jetta GLX (turbo soon) - 95 Turbo Cabrio ** 78 Turbo Scirocco - Jackrabbit kit car ** 90 Corrado G-60 - Turbo in 6 months or so. ** 85 Quantum - 93 Mercedes 190 E ** 77 Scirocco - 89 Cabriolet (for Sale $5500) ** 91 Chevy S-10 4X4 - Kawasaki Jetmate Boat ** Kawasaki 550 Jetski - various trailers etc... From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Fri Oct 13 18:59 PDT 1995 Received: from mailer by fshpp1 with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA07400; Fri, 13 Oct 1995 18:59:20 -0700 Return-Path: Received: from desiree.teleport.com by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #4) id <01HWEHDQ1ZO0002JVP@UG.EDS.COM>; Fri, 13 Oct 1995 18:55:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id UAA06689 for corrado-l-outgoing; Wed, 11 Oct 1995 20:40:33 -0700 Received: from ix8.ix.netcom.com (ix8.ix.netcom.com [199.182.120.8]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA06676 for ; Wed, 11 Oct 1995 20:40:28 -0700 Received: from by ix8.ix.netcom.com (8.6.12/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id UAA26841; Wed, 11 Oct 1995 20:39:55 -0700 Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 20:39:55 -0700 From: radog60@ix.netcom.com (Qui Le ) Subject: Repco Metalmasters Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com To: corrado-l@teleport.com Reply-To: corrado-l@teleport.com Message-Id: <199510120339.UAA26841@ix8.ix.netcom.com> X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Precedence: bulk Status: RO In spite of the numerous recommendations AGAINST the metalmasters for everyday driving, I'm going to get these for my next set of brake pads anyway. Many have posted that these pads take a while to heat up and is best used for racing applications. Some have even mentioned that one might slide passed a stop light in a cold moring. But they're also less prone to wear and squeeling, right? I do a lot of hard driving, thus a lot of hard stopping. In fact, I just do a lot of driving in general and I have just about had it with squeeling brakes. I have yet to find a set of pads that do not squeel. It's just too embarrassing most of time to pull up somewhere and squueeel to a stop. One concern I have is that whether or not these will work with the stock(undrilled) rotors. These are often sold with the cross-drilled rotor packages. Will these be effective if I run them with the stock rotors? Any comments? Am I crazy to put these on my STREET car? -Qui '90 G60 From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Fri Oct 13 18:58 PDT 1995 Received: from mailer by fshpp1 with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA07378; Fri, 13 Oct 1995 18:58:51 -0700 Return-Path: Received: from desiree.teleport.com by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #4) id <01HWEHDQ1ZO0002JVP@UG.EDS.COM>; Fri, 13 Oct 1995 18:55:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id WAA01536 for corrado-l-outgoing; Wed, 11 Oct 1995 22:13:23 -0700 Received: from guardian.colonial.com.au (firewall-user@[140.168.249.1]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA01459 for ; Wed, 11 Oct 1995 22:13:06 -0700 Received: by guardian.colonial.com.au; id PAA09515; Thu, 12 Oct 1995 15:03:03 +1000 Received: from redbaron.cmutual.com.au(140.168.1.5) by guardian.colonial.com.au via smap (g3.0.1) id sma009429; Thu, 12 Oct 95 15:02:57 +1000 Received: from stimpy.cmutual.com.au by redbaron.cmutual.com.au with SMTP id AA28750 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for ); Thu, 12 Oct 1995 15:04:00 +1000 Received: by stimpy.cmutual.com.au with Microsoft Mail id <307D901F@stimpy.cmutual.com.au>; Thu, 12 Oct 95 15:01:03 PDT Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 15:03:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Stone, Jason" Subject: RE: Repco Metalmasters Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com To: 'corrado-l' Reply-To: corrado-l@teleport.com Message-Id: <307D901F@stimpy.cmutual.com.au> X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Encoding: 32 TEXT Precedence: bulk Status: RO Qui, > In spite of the numerous recommendations AGAINST the metalmasters for > everyday driving, I'm going to get these for my next set of brake pads > anyway. Many have posted that these pads take a while to heat up and is > best used for racing applications. Some have even mentioned that one > might slide passed a stop light in a cold moring. So just remember to warm them up by applying pressure till you get to the end of the street in the morning. And if anyone else is to drive your car tell them what to expect. Better still show them what to do! > Any comments? Am I crazy to put these on my STREET car? Naahhh... Friend of mine with a highly modified Mk1 (but non-turbo) put these on and he could stop unreal and that was only with vented GTi disc fronts and manual adjusting drum rears. He did race this every month, but drove it EVERY day on the road in cold and hot temps. My opinion - go for it! Jase Stone. JStone@cocam.com.au ex '92 A2 Golf GTi now '76 A1 stock hack budget racer :-> (nearly rolled [but not quite] last Sunday!) From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Fri Oct 13 18:56 PDT 1995 Received: from mailer by fshpp1 with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA07329; Fri, 13 Oct 1995 18:56:56 -0700 Return-Path: Received: from desiree.teleport.com by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #4) id <01HWEHDQ1ZO0002JVP@UG.EDS.COM>; Fri, 13 Oct 1995 18:53:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id AAA02443 for corrado-l-outgoing; Thu, 12 Oct 1995 00:22:13 -0700 Received: from mail02.mail.aol.com (mail02.mail.aol.com [152.163.172.66]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA02415 for ; Thu, 12 Oct 1995 00:22:09 -0700 Received: by mail02.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id DAA26603 for corrado-l@teleport.com; Thu, 12 Oct 1995 03:21:35 -0400 Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 03:21:35 -0400 From: UniqueVR6@aol.com Subject: Re: Repco Metalmasters Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com To: corrado-l@teleport.com Reply-To: corrado-l@teleport.com Message-Id: <951012032134_73296159@mail02.mail.aol.com> X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Precedence: bulk Status: RO >In spite of the numerous recommendations AGAINST the metalmasters for >everyday driving, I'm going to get these for my next set of brake pads >anyway. Many have posted that these pads take a while to heat up and is >best used for racing applications. Some have even mentioned that one >might slide passed a stop light in a cold moring. > Uh, I got rather castigated a while back for mentioning that I had installed Repco MMs and stainless steel lines in my street car, but I have to speak out that I've been very happy with their performance over the stock pads thus far, and also the squealing is (mostly) a thing of the past. I've been running the MMs with the stock rotors since March, and have thankfully not experienced "sliding past a stop light on a cold morning", maybe it doesn't get cold enough in California? The theory about the reduced performance of compounds like the MMs vs factory pads when not warmed up is well-documented, but I personally have not experienced this level of degradation in street use. Actually, Tim has driven my car a couple of times, what do you think? Edward P.S. New Dimensions will be installing front 4-pot calipers along with Mintex pads in the rear on my Corrado next week in preparation for the increased power of the 3.1 motor - should be interesting to see what sort of braking differences will result... From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Fri Oct 13 18:46 PDT 1995 Received: from mailer by fshpp1 with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA07275; Fri, 13 Oct 1995 18:46:13 -0700 Return-Path: Received: from desiree.teleport.com by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #4) id <01HWEGKZHBEO003MFN@UG.EDS.COM>; Fri, 13 Oct 1995 18:42:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id GAA18648 for corrado-l-outgoing; Thu, 12 Oct 1995 06:43:52 -0700 Received: from mail06.mail.aol.com (mail06.mail.aol.com [152.163.172.108]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA18630 for ; Thu, 12 Oct 1995 06:43:46 -0700 Received: by mail06.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA15251 for corrado-l@teleport.com; Thu, 12 Oct 1995 09:43:14 -0400 Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 09:43:14 -0400 From: SKVWnut@aol.com Subject: Re: Repco Metalmasters Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com To: corrado-l@teleport.com Reply-To: corrado-l@teleport.com Message-Id: <951012094312_122124749@mail06.mail.aol.com> X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Precedence: bulk Status: RO Qui, I have a 90g60 and I installed MMs along with new rotors on all four corners. I wasn't aware of any problems with cold brakes or diminshed braking ability until now. I admit they felt different at first and maybe little less braking upon first application in the morning now that I'm aware of it, but they don't squeal, generate little dust and work (I think) great during high speed braking on the highway--you know, traffic is clipping along and then all of a sudden it backs up to an almost standstill. I'm willing to bet that stainless lines would help and that new pads on old rotors might have something to do with it as well. Steve Kuehn SKVWnut@aol.com Red 90g60 From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Fri Oct 13 18:46 PDT 1995 Received: from mailer by fshpp1 with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA07283; Fri, 13 Oct 1995 18:46:21 -0700 Return-Path: Received: from desiree.teleport.com by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #4) id <01HWEGKZHBEO003MFN@UG.EDS.COM>; Fri, 13 Oct 1995 18:42:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id GAA17770 for corrado-l-outgoing; Thu, 12 Oct 1995 06:39:11 -0700 Received: from minnie.nic.kingston.ibm.com (minnie.nic.kingston.ibm.com [204.149.7.252]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id GAA17761 for ; Thu, 12 Oct 1995 06:39:08 -0700 Received: from hp.kgn.ibm.com by minnie.nic.kingston.ibm.com (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA10157; Thu, 12 Oct 1995 09:35:02 -0400 Received: by hp.kgn.ibm.com (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA34671; Thu, 12 Oct 1995 09:39:06 -0400 Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 09:39:04 -0500 From: msalerno@kgn.ibm.com (Mike Salerno) Subject: Re: Repco Metalmasters In-Reply-To: (Your message of Wed, 11 Oct 95 20:39:55 MST.) <199510120339.UAA26841@ix8.ix.netcom.com> Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com To: corrado-l@teleport.com Reply-To: corrado-l@teleport.com Message-Id: <9510121339.AA34671@hp.kgn.ibm.com> X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6 4/21/95 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Precedence: bulk Status: RO Qui- I had MetalMasters on a previous Scirocco. I wouldn't recommend them for the street. Your first stop will be a little hairy, this isn't too bad since you are expecting it. The problem I found was that even during normal driving they brakes tend to cool down between stops. This causes many of your stops throughout your drive to be hairy. This problem is aplified whenever it is rainy or snowy or anything that can cool your brakes faster, the worst is slush which seems to cool the brakes down in a matter of a minute or so. The thing is you're not sure of exactly what will happen when you apply the anchor pedal. I didn't like that feeling. Have you checked out the Mintex SilverLines? They're supposed to be almost as fade/squeel proof as the MM's but with better cold performance. Tim of ND stocks these and could give you more info. Happy stopping, Mike > In spite of the numerous recommendations AGAINST the metalmasters for > everyday driving, I'm going to get these for my next set of brake pads > anyway. Many have posted that these pads take a while to heat up and is > best used for racing applications. Some have even mentioned that one > might slide passed a stop light in a cold moring. > > But they're also less prone to wear and squeeling, right? > > I do a lot of hard driving, thus a lot of hard stopping. In fact, I > just do a lot of driving in general and I have just about had it with > squeeling brakes. I have yet to find a set of pads that do not squeel. > It's just too embarrassing most of time to pull up somewhere and > squueeel to a stop. > > One concern I have is that whether or not these will work with the > stock(undrilled) rotors. These are often sold with the cross-drilled > rotor packages. Will these be effective if I run them with the stock > rotors? > > Any comments? Am I crazy to put these on my STREET car? > > -Qui > '90 G60 ********************************************************** Power Parallel Division IBM Poughkeepsie, NY (914)433-7933 BEEMERmail:msalerno at mhv or msalerno@hp.kgn.ibm.com INTERNET: msalerno@minnie.kgn.ibm.com From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Fri Oct 13 18:46 PDT 1995 Received: from mailer by fshpp1 with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA07279; Fri, 13 Oct 1995 18:46:18 -0700 Return-Path: Received: from desiree.teleport.com by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #4) id <01HWEGKZHBEO003MFN@UG.EDS.COM>; Fri, 13 Oct 1995 18:42:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id GAA17987 for corrado-l-outgoing; Thu, 12 Oct 1995 06:40:11 -0700 Received: from river.biddeford.com (river.biddeford.com [204.120.68.6]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA17976 for ; Thu, 12 Oct 1995 06:40:07 -0700 Received: from [204.248.138.68] (brnpc5.biddeford.com [204.248.138.68]) by river.biddeford.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id JAA21110 for ; Thu, 12 Oct 1995 09:41:26 -0400 Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 09:43:38 -0400 From: trumper@biddeford.com (Peter K. Trumper) Subject: Re: Repco Metalmasters Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com X-Sender: trumper@mail.biddeford.com To: corrado-l@teleport.com Reply-To: corrado-l@teleport.com Message-Id: X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Precedence: bulk Status: RO >In spite of the numerous recommendations AGAINST the metalmasters for >everyday driving, I'm going to get these for my next set of brake pads >anyway. Many have posted that these pads take a while to heat up and is >best used for racing applications. Some have even mentioned that one >might slide passed a stop light in a cold moring. > >But they're also less prone to wear and squeeling, right? > >I do a lot of hard driving, thus a lot of hard stopping. In fact, I >just do a lot of driving in general and I have just about had it with >squeeling brakes. I have yet to find a set of pads that do not squeel. >It's just too embarrassing most of time to pull up somewhere and >squueeel to a stop. > >One concern I have is that whether or not these will work with the >stock(undrilled) rotors. These are often sold with the cross-drilled >rotor packages. Will these be effective if I run them with the stock >rotors? > >Any comments? Am I crazy to put these on my STREET car? > >-Qui >'90 G60 I've been using MetalMasters on stock rotors on my G60 (89-92) and on my VR6 since '92 and I'm perfectly happy with them. They DO require a bit more pedal pressure when stone cold, but it's not as if they're dangerously poor in sudden stops in traffic. I've never not been able to brake hard enough when cold to activate the ABS. I got them for autocross and track events, and I really like the greatly reduced amount of brake dust they produce as compared to the OEM pads. Peter Trumper Brunswick, Maine trumper@biddeford.com From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Fri Oct 13 18:46 PDT 1995 Received: from mailer by fshpp1 with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA07259; Fri, 13 Oct 1995 18:46:02 -0700 Return-Path: Received: from desiree.teleport.com by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #4) id <01HWEGKZHBEO003MFN@UG.EDS.COM>; Fri, 13 Oct 1995 18:42:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id IAA25944 for corrado-l-outgoing; Thu, 12 Oct 1995 08:57:39 -0700 Received: from emout06.mail.aol.com (emout06.mail.aol.com [198.81.10.43]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA25792 for ; Thu, 12 Oct 1995 08:57:18 -0700 Received: by emout06.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA28569 for corrado-l@teleport.com; Thu, 12 Oct 1995 11:56:44 -0400 Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 11:56:44 -0400 From: TurboTim@aol.com Subject: Re: Repco Metalmasters Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com To: corrado-l@teleport.com Reply-To: corrado-l@teleport.com Message-Id: <951012115643_42732537@emout06.mail.aol.com> X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Precedence: bulk Status: RO In a message dated 95-10-12 03:26:18 EDT, Ed writes: > The theory about the reduced performance of compounds like the MMs vs >factory pads when not warmed up is well-documented, but I personally have not >experienced this level of degradation in street use. Actually, Tim has >driven my car a couple of times, what do you think? It's not as bad here in warmer climates but that is one of the weak points of the MMs. I have been testing the HP range from Mintex and I have been very impressed. We will most likely be the importing these and marketing them under the High Performance Range pads from ND/Mintex. As soon as I get them I will offer them to you guys (gals also if any are reading) to check out. We also have the redbox compound (like stock) in inventory now. **TT* From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Fri Oct 13 18:43 PDT 1995 Received: from mailer by fshpp1 with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA07173; Fri, 13 Oct 1995 18:43:00 -0700 Return-Path: Received: from desiree.teleport.com by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #4) id <01HWEGKZHBEO003MFN@UG.EDS.COM>; Fri, 13 Oct 1995 18:39:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id MAA10182 for corrado-l-outgoing; Thu, 12 Oct 1995 12:40:56 -0700 Received: from mail04.mail.aol.com (mail04.mail.aol.com [152.163.172.53]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAB10151 for ; Thu, 12 Oct 1995 12:40:38 -0700 Received: by mail04.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA25334 for corrado-l@teleport.com; Thu, 12 Oct 1995 15:40:04 -0400 Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 15:40:04 -0400 From: UniqueVR6@aol.com Subject: Re: Repco Metalmasters Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com To: corrado-l@teleport.com Reply-To: corrado-l@teleport.com Message-Id: <951012154002_73430642@mail04.mail.aol.com> X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Precedence: bulk Status: RO In a message dated 95-10-12 12:05:38 EDT, Tim (TurboTim@aol.com) writes: >It's not as bad here in warmer climates but that is one of the weak points of >the MMs. >I have been testing the HP range from Mintex and I have been very impressed. > Originally had wanted to get the Mintex Silverlines but they were not in stock at the time. I guess that the MMs have worked out relatively well for me since it really has not got much colder than 50 F ever since I've had them installed. Perhaps a bit more pedal pressure might have been required for those first stops in the morning, but nothing like being "dangerously poor in sudden stops in traffic" (and I've had to deal with quite a few instances of "high speed braking on the highway"). The upside of the MMs when compared to stock is, as other people have pointed out, less fade especially in hard sustained braking, much less dust generated (it's a bitch cleaning those factory BBS mesh-spoke rims!), and significant reduction of the squealing brakes phenomenum. However, they are probably not as recommended if you live in a colder clime and don't tend to work your brakes hard. Qui, perhaps you should also consider the Mintex especially since you don't live too far away from ND (what's the Corrado Club discount on those babies, Tim)? Anyway, not to take any chances now that the winter is not too far off in the distance and we might actually see the night temperatures eventually drop as chillingly low as the upper 30s to lower 40s here in Northern California ;o) , I'm going to switch to the Mintex HP compound for the rears courtesy of Tim (the Wilwood quad calipers for up front already come with Performance Friction Z-rated pads). Will try to get some braking figures for before & after if anyone's interested (wish I had done it with the factory setup for reference)... Edward P.S. Jan, isn't there something in the archives on this subject? Actually we haven't heard from you for a while, hope you're not re-experiencing withdrawal symptoms from not getting delivery of mail from the list (or perhaps you're busy taking care of the little one?)... ;o) From owner-corrado-l@teleport.com Tue Mar 5 11:17 PST 1996 Received: from mailer by fshpp1 with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA02275; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 11:17:56 -0800 Return-Path: Received: from desiree.teleport.com by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #4) id <01I1Z7EK5NO0000A2Y@UG.EDS.COM>; Tue, 05 Mar 1996 11:16:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA26440; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 11:13:03 -0800 Received: by desiree.teleport.com (bulk_mailer v1.3); Tue, 5 Mar 1996 11:12:56 -0800 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id LAA26265 for corrado-l-outgoing; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 11:12:47 -0800 Received: from emout10.mail.aol.com (emout10.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.25]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA26216 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 11:12:39 -0800 Received: by emout10.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA18485 for corrado-l@teleport.com; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 14:12:55 -0500 Date: Tue, 05 Mar 1996 14:12:55 -0500 From: UniqueVR6@aol.com Subject: Re: Rotors, Pads & Brake Stuff Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com To: corrado-l@teleport.com Reply-To: UniqueVR6@aol.com Message-Id: <960305141254_341805699@emout10.mail.aol.com> X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Precedence: bulk Status: RO >VW does not recommend >DOT5 because it is incompatible with their seals. How about DOT 5.1 if it's not silicone-based? >Not anymore. 11.5" are now available on the new Passats. For those into esoteric mods (read super expensive!), I believe AP makes a set of 12" front rotors, and I've heard rumours from Canada of the availability of a 13" version... >But currently, I am looking for Carbon Metalic pads for track use The Polymatrix D compound pads used in Richie's 3.1 Passat are supposed to have phenomenal gut-wrenching decceleration capabilities like no other. Unfortunately they have a tendency to wear out the rotors extremely rapidly, and are not ideally suited for street use (I know you were asking about track applications but if you also drive your car on the street, it's something to be concerned about). Also look into Ferrodo, Performance Friction and Wilwood's offerings. For the ultimate setup for the track (in terms of stopping ability, resistance to heat and fade when constantly used, unsprung weight, etc.), you might want to fantasise about a carbon-carbon combination from Carbone Industrie (4-pot calipers required to make proper use of these)... Back to reality though, good things have been posted about the Mintex Redbox and HP pads, and the debate continues on the suitability of Repco MMs for street use (I had no problems with them in the past, but other people understandably had major concerns over their performance when cold). Just rambling on, Edward From owner-corrado-l@teleport.com Tue Mar 5 13:15 PST 1996 Received: from mailer by fshpp1 with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA25905; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 13:15:33 -0800 Return-Path: Received: from desiree.teleport.com by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #4) id <01I1ZBICZEDC002B9B@UG.EDS.COM>; Tue, 05 Mar 1996 13:14:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA05365; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 13:10:27 -0800 Received: by desiree.teleport.com (bulk_mailer v1.3); Tue, 5 Mar 1996 13:10:25 -0800 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id NAA05308 for corrado-l-outgoing; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 13:10:22 -0800 Received: from dsnvxa.sugar-land.dowell.slb.com (DSNVXA.Sugar-Land.Dowell.slb.com [163.185.23.140]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA05280 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 13:10:19 -0800 Received: from Autocad5-pc by dsnvxa.sugar-land.dowell.slb.com with SMTP; Tue, 5 Mar 1996 15:12:32 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 05 Mar 1996 13:10:19 -0800 From: Nick Snyder Subject: 11.5 rotors Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com X-Sender: nsnyder@dsnvsg.sugar-land.dowell.slb.com To: corrado-l@teleport.com Reply-To: Nick Snyder Message-Id: <2.2.16.19960305151059.3a47d61e@dsnvsg.sugar-land.dowell.slb.com> X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Precedence: bulk Status: RO The new 11.5" rotors require new calipers and pads. Joe at ND says about $1,000!!! Later, NSnyder@sugar-land.dowell.slb.com >>93 Corrado SLC<< "Porsche performance at a VW price" From ow