Summary on Brake_Upgrades ========================= Editor: judson@colorado.edu (Jud Main) Maintainer: Jan Vandenbrande Much of this is already covered well under the FAQs. A 14" rim will handle up to a 10.1" vented rotor and caliper. A 15" rim= will handle the 11" vented rotor and caliper but only with the correct= offset and fitment. A 16" rim will handle the 11". If you have an A1 with 13" wheels made before 1980, you can upgrade to the= 9.4" vented rotors and calipers from an A1 VW GTI or Jetta GLI, or 82 or= later VW Scirocco. =20 The 9.4" and 10.1" change is fairly simple. The brake lines must be= unbolted, the old calipers removed, along with the rotor, and the new= calipers bolt right up, as does the rotor. You will need to bleed the= brake lines. Consult your Bentley manual. One trick I've learned is to= let whatever line you are on trickle slowly from the bleeder screw for= about an hour before doing your normal bleeding. This helps better than= anything at getting air out of your brake lines. The 11" change is more complicated. Autotech has the complete kit with the= appropriate adapters. It is expensive, however. The rear drum to disk brake change is more complicated. The Scirocco 16V= rear disk brakes will bolt right up with some very minor grinding, but the= rear disk brake setup from the A2 GTIs and Jetta requires a change of the= entire rear axle. I put in a 16V brake system into my 1980 Scirocco, and= the rear brakes took four or five times as long as the fronts. =20 Changing to a larger (22mm) master cylinder and the larger vacuum booster it= comes with on the 16V is difficult. The master cylinder isn't too bad, but= the vacuum booster connects with some really nasty and hard to get to bolts= that are usually rusted on. This is a lot of effort and time involved. = The result, especially noticeable when changing to the rear disk setup, is= a much better pedal feel and less pedal effort. By far the most cost effective way to go with the biggest braking gains is= to switch to 14" rims (and why not put some good tires on while you're at= it?) and bolt on a pair of new calipers and rotors. I've noticed very good= prices on these in European Car magazine. New calipers will save you the= need to rebuild (after all, since they are out on your bench, why not= replace the seals?) and new rotors will save you the cost of having the= used ones turned. The metal on rotors can vary in quality, so make sure= you get German OEM quality rotors. Poor cooling and warpage can occur= (with poor braking the result) with bad rotors. Also upgrade to better= pads as per the FAQ. Personally, I am having very good luck with Ferodos,= as their cold performance is quite good, and they get better they hotter= they get! Unfortunately, I missed an opportunity to take e-mail off a newsgroup= concerning cross-drilling rotors, and etc. I will try to summarize here: You brakes work by converting mechanic work to heat. The more efficient= this conversion to heat, the quicker you stop. Calipers: clamping force and area. The higher the clamping force, the= higher the friction can be. They also absorb a lot of heat, and their= ability to absorb this heat (bleeding it off) can affect your braking a= bit. See pads below when considering area. =20 When you read that Porsche is using a four piston caliper (VW uses one),= they are using two pistons on each side of the rotor. Pads: area and material used. Surface area of the pad is part of the= design of the brake. The caliper must be designed to hold the pad. = Actually, the larger the surface area, the less pounds of pressure per= square inch is exerted, and the less actual friction may be taking place. = Thus, often when pad area is increased, caliper clamping force must be= increased. (This explains why your pedal effort is greater on the 10.1"= brakes than the 9.4" brakes. See the master cylinder stuff ahead.) The= pad material can not only have a higher coefficient of friction, but also= be very good at absorbing and throwing off the heat. Remember, we are= converting the mechanical force of the rotor spinning to heat. The more= efficient this conversion, the faster we stop. Rotor: surface area, cooling, venting of gases and kind of material. The= larger the surface area the more possible cooling (see pads and calipers). = Plus there is more metal to absorb the heat. Vented rotors allow for air= to get inside of the rotors and cool them off. The material is usually a= good metal or metal alloy. I've heard the latest thing is to use carbon= fiber as the material for the rotor. Obviously, a material that can handle= high temperatures and cool quickly will make a big difference in braking. Cross drilling rotors: drilling little holes into the rotor reduces the= amount of metal (reducing its effectiveness to absorb and throw off heat)= of the rotor and the surface area, but aids in cooling and venting gases= (and pad material, i.e. brake dust) from the pads. (The gases are part of= the heat equation - the quicker they are removed, the better the heat= transfer, the better you brake). So obviously they are a trade-off. They= also are more prone to cracking near the holes, and warping due to less= overall structural integrity. Warping, like an old warped record album,= reduces the friction area. This is why rotors are usually "turned" during= a brake job. The rotors have a small amount of metal shaved off the high= spots to even the surface area. Slotting rotors: slots allow for gases and brake dust to escape. They= don't reduce the surface area hardly at all. They are only slightly= lighter. They can be a longer-lasting alternative to cross-drilling (esp.= in normal driving when you might have very hot rotors suddenly cooled by= driving through water). Master cylinder: a larger diameter of this basic plunger design allows for= greater pressure applied with lesser pedal effort. Thus, changing to a= larger master cylinder will generally end in better braking (the effects= naturally affected according to caliper/pad/rotor changes). Vacuum booster: uses engine vacuum to reduce your pedal effort. A larger= vacuum booster again will reduce your pedal effort even more. See master= cylinder above. Brake fluid: Brakes fluid takes the pressure applied at the master cylinder= and applies it through brake lines to the back of the piston in the= caliper. The higher the pressure, the more the piston is pushed out. The= piston pushes directly against the pads. Obviously brake fluid must be= almost a liquid "steel rod" in that it must take pressure on one end and= apply the same pressure on the other. Water just doesn't cut it. In fact,= brake fluid's effectiveness declines rapidly when it is contaminated with= water. Brake fluid is highly hygroscopic (spelling?), meaning it will= absorb water rapidly, even right out of the air. Don't use brake fluid= that's been exposed to the air overnight! DOT =3D Department of Transportation. DOT 3 means that a brake fluid passes= a certain standard. DOT 4 means it passes a higher standard. Castrol LMA= passes both standards and is of high quality. There are other kinds of= fluids, synthetics and all. It is most important that your fluid is bled= out of your system and replaced with new fluid every year or so. Though= DOT 4 is higher quality, brake fluid can degrade and absorb water so easily= that it is more important to make sure it is fresh. Bad brake fluid and= water in your system will soften your pedal and reduce braking, plus over= time it can do damage to your calipers. E-mail on the subjects: ============================================================================== From lynx.unm.edu!jobone!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gatech!udel!news.intercon.com!uhog.mit.edu!wupost!bigfoot.wustl.edu!siesta.cs.wustl.edu!not-for-mail Tue Apr 26 19:44:25 PDT 1994 Article: 31058 of rec.autos.vw Path: lynx.unm.edu!jobone!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gatech!udel!news.intercon.com!uhog.mit.edu!wupost!bigfoot.wustl.edu!siesta.cs.wustl.edu!not-for-mail From: christos@siesta.cs.wustl.edu (Christos Papadopoulos) Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw Subject: 10.1" brake upgrade for A1 cars Date: 26 Apr 1994 16:08:44 -0500 Organization: Washington University, St. Louis MO Lines: 51 Distribution: na Message-ID: <2pjvss$qqu@siesta.cs.wustl.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: siesta.cs.wustl.edu I have completed a brake upgrade last week in my '84 GLI. I upgraded my stock 9.4" vented rotors and KH calipers to the Scirocco 16V 10.1" rotors and Girling calipers. As I understand, the upgrade is possible with all A1 cars, including the Fox, but check to be sure. The procedure is amazingly simple: un-bolt the old calipers, remove the old rotors, disconnect the brake line from the old calipers, and then install the new rotors and calipers and connect the brake lines. Bleed the brakes and you are done! it shouldn't take more than 30 min per side, assuming everything comes out easy. The only problem is removing the small screw that holds the rotors to the bearing housing, which is notorious for getting stuck. An impact driver is the only way to get this one out. If, however, the screw breaks don't worry, it's not really needed. The Girling calipers ARE a direct bolt-on replacement for the smaller KH calipers. Several VW shops sell the upgrade as a kit. If you decide to get the calipers separate, make sure that you get BOTH the calipers AND the brake pad carriers: the new calipers will NOT bolt on the old brake pad carriers. Another word of caution: you MUST have 14" or bigger wheels for the new calipers to fit. The results? Excellent! The big 10.1" brakes do wonders for my little and light GLI. The car stops noticeably quicker and braking feels much more secure. The brake pedal force required is noticeably less, and braking at highway speeds has improved a lot. I highly recommend the upgrade. I called Techtonics before proceeding with the upgrade, and their comment was: "try it, you'll like it!" They were right. Rapid Parts said I may need a bigger master cylinder. I have not felt the need for that yet. About pricing: most kits sold by the like of Neuspeed, APS, etc. are expensive: around $450 - $500. These kits, however, include new calipers, rotors and pads (and sometimes new steel-braided brake lines). I think Wolfsport is cheaper at $350. I got mine from a fellow netter, Jim Kokernak (kokerj@rpi.edu). My kit included a pair of re-manufactured Girling calipers, new vented rotors and new Repco metalmaster pads. It cost me about $260, including shipping. The rotors were made in Italy, and the pads were not marked as Repco, but Mr. Kokernak assured me that they were Repcos. I have no reason to doubt him. I should stress that I have no relation to Mr. Kokernak, besides being a satisfied customer. I am just passing this as information that may benefit others. If anyone has specific questions, post or contact me directly. Christos. From lynx.unm.edu!umn.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!panix!ddsw1!godot.cc.duq.edu!nntp.club.cc.cmu.edu!hudson.lm.com!telerama.lm.com!not-for-mail Mon Aug 22 18:56:36 PDT 1994 Article: 38013 of rec.autos.vw Path: lynx.unm.edu!umn.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!panix!ddsw1!godot.cc.duq.edu!nntp.club.cc.cmu.edu!hudson.lm.com!telerama.lm.com!not-for-mail From: bwgti16v@telerama.lm.com (Brian Wicks) Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw Subject: Re: [w] Soft Brake Pedal Date: 21 Aug 1994 13:22:20 -0400 Organization: Telerama Public Access Internet, Pittsburgh, PA Lines: 14 Distribution: world Message-ID: <3382gc$i53@telerama.lm.com> References: <17.25363.991@almac.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: telerama.lm.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] > I have never heard of resurfacing rotors(discs in the UK). This will help > to make the brakes softer as there is more fluid in the calipers. I would > change the rotors. People claim that we Scots are mean. I installed stainless steel brake lines on my GTI and the pedal feel is MUCH firmer over stock, It's also more consistant throughout the travel of the pedal. I paid ~$70 from New Dimensions. I feel is was money well spent. YOu may pay less if your rear brakes are drums (as opposed to Disc like mine). -- Brian Wicks A.K.S. Autocrossing, Kayaking, Soccer bwgti16v.telerama.lm.com Keep the Faith From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Mon Jul 10 11:11 PDT 1995 Received: from mailer by fshpp1 with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA27154; Mon, 10 Jul 1995 11:11:53 -0700 Return-Path: Received: from desiree.teleport.com by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #4) id <01HSPBIEOO1C000UVW@UG.EDS.COM>; Mon, 10 Jul 1995 11:09:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) id LAA29106 for corrado-l-outgoing; Mon, 10 Jul 1995 11:05:51 -0700 Received: from mail02.mail.aol.com (mail02.mail.aol.com [152.163.172.66]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA29078 for ; Mon, 10 Jul 1995 11:05:46 -0700 Received: by mail02.mail.aol.com (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA179079514; Mon, 10 Jul 1995 14:05:14 -0400 Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 14:05:14 -0400 From: TurboTim@aol.com Subject: Re: 11.5" brakes, Re: brake pads Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com To: corrado-l@teleport.com Reply-To: corrado-l@teleport.com Message-Id: <950710140444_111710116@aol.com> X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Precedence: bulk Status: RO In a message dated 95-07-07 22:36:17 EDT, you write: >Tim, the 11.5" brake kit sounds really great! I've always lusted for bigger >rotors (that would fit) and my only question is what kind of caliper & pads >come with it and what sizes are they? I presume that they are also larger in >surface area than stock since larger rotors by themselves would not increase >the effective contact surface area... The upgrade is complete rotors,calipers,pads,brakelines. These are OEM parts that will be coming on the Passat VR6 and I believe the other VR6 models also in the 1996 year models. **TT** From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Wed Jul 5 16:39 PDT 1995 Received: from mailer by fshpp1 with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA28123; Wed, 5 Jul 1995 16:39:45 -0700 Return-Path: Received: from desiree.teleport.com by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #4) id <01HSINI63ROG000AK4@UG.EDS.COM>; Wed, 05 Jul 1995 16:37:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) id MAA08674 for corrado-l-outgoing; Wed, 5 Jul 1995 12:56:38 -0700 Received: from mail06.mail.aol.com (mail06.mail.aol.com [152.163.172.108]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA08496 for ; Wed, 5 Jul 1995 12:55:20 -0700 Received: by mail06.mail.aol.com (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA023479311; Wed, 5 Jul 1995 14:35:11 -0400 Date: Wed, 05 Jul 1995 14:35:11 -0400 From: TurboTim@aol.com Subject: Re: 11.5" brakes for 5-lug VW's Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com To: corrado-l@teleport.com Reply-To: corrado-l@teleport.com Message-Id: <950705143510_25796239@aol.com> X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Precedence: bulk Status: RO In a message dated 95-07-05 12:58:03 EDT, Jan writes: >Do they require different calipers? Pads (I would assume yes)? >caliper holder? 16" rims (that would put me in ASP, challenge the vettes >instead)? The kit consist of new calipers with carriers, rotors, brake lines, and pads. They are designed to fit the stock 15" wheels on the VR6 models and fit fine with my 16" TSW Hockenheims. **TT** From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Sun Jul 2 16:36 PDT 1995 Received: from mailer by fshpp1 with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA12468; Sun, 2 Jul 1995 16:36:26 -0700 Return-Path: Received: from desiree.teleport.com by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #4) id <01HSEGIVIT2O0092LU@UG.EDS.COM>; Sun, 02 Jul 1995 16:34:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) id QAA14231 for corrado-l-outgoing; Sun, 2 Jul 1995 16:31:43 -0700 Received: from mail06.mail.aol.com (mail06.mail.aol.com [152.163.172.108]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA14225 for ; Sun, 2 Jul 1995 16:31:41 -0700 Received: by mail06.mail.aol.com (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA142187869; Sun, 2 Jul 1995 19:31:09 -0400 Date: Sun, 02 Jul 1995 19:31:09 -0400 From: TurboTim@aol.com Subject: Re: 11.5" brakes for 5-lug VW's Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com To: corrado-l@teleport.com Reply-To: corrado-l@teleport.com Message-Id: <950702193107_106742845@aol.com> X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Precedence: bulk Status: RO In a message dated 95-07-01 01:21:30 EDT,(Brian J White writes: >Are they cross drilled?? I will DEFINATLY splat down my $$$ if >they are drilled and slotted. No these are test OEM setup for VW. 95-99% of the people who have the drilled/slotted rotors do not need them as they never brake hard enough to fade the stock brake but want the boy-racer look. But if we sell them we would be able to have them slotted and drilled as needed to your requirements. The look BIG. My TSW wheels look cool with the massive rotor. **TT** From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Fri Jun 30 12:28 PDT 1995 Received: from mailer by fshpp1 with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA10126; Fri, 30 Jun 1995 12:28:25 -0700 Return-Path: Received: from desiree.teleport.com by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #4) id <01HSBF9RNJ74009ZJG@UG.EDS.COM>; Fri, 30 Jun 1995 12:26:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) id MAA12231 for corrado-l-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jun 1995 12:16:01 -0700 Received: from mail04.mail.aol.com (mail04.mail.aol.com [152.163.172.53]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA12125 for ; Fri, 30 Jun 1995 12:15:38 -0700 Received: by mail04.mail.aol.com (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA238559706; Fri, 30 Jun 1995 15:15:06 -0400 Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 15:15:06 -0400 From: TurboTim@aol.com Subject: 11.5" brakes for 5-lug VW's Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com To: corrado-l@teleport.com Reply-To: corrado-l@teleport.com Message-Id: <950630151504_81660504@aol.com> X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Precedence: bulk Status: RO In a message dated 95-06-29 14:03:08 EDT, Michael C Voorhis writes: >One question: are they retro-fittable on `old' VR6 cars, or do I >need >to buy new everything (wheels, calipers, etc) They should fit all 5-lug VR6 models. We will be trying fitment on wheels once we get out set installed. They just gave us the parts and we are installing them today. >Would love to see 70-0 stopping distances before and after, and such... :) We fired up the Vericom and will post the results after we break in the new set and run the test on them. They look awesome !!!!!! **TT** From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Thu Sep 14 11:41 PDT 1995 Received: from mailer by fshpp1 with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA06467; Thu, 14 Sep 1995 11:41:58 -0700 Return-Path: Received: from desiree.teleport.com by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #4) id <01HV9JU47L7K007BX1@UG.EDS.COM>; Thu, 14 Sep 1995 11:41:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id LAA02635 for corrado-l-outgoing; Thu, 14 Sep 1995 11:28:44 -0700 Received: from mail06.mail.aol.com (mail06.mail.aol.com [152.163.172.108]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA02602 for ; Thu, 14 Sep 1995 11:28:39 -0700 Received: by mail06.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA03301 for corrado-l@teleport.com; Thu, 14 Sep 1995 14:28:06 -0400 Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 14:28:06 -0400 From: TurboTim@aol.com Subject: New products from ND Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com To: corrado-l@teleport.com Reply-To: corrado-l@teleport.com Message-Id: <950914142805_99463407@mail06.mail.aol.com> X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Precedence: bulk Status: RO Here is a little info on a few new products coming out. The big bore throttle bodies will be out soon. We just tested the 2.0 4 cylinder and it works very well. Reduced 0-60 times around 3/4 of a second and the throttle response is incredible. This is available now and retails for $249.95. We have not come up with a fancy name yet so if anyone has any suggestions E-mail them to me. Now the VR6 TB will be done and we should be doing testing in the next few weeks. Will be doing a back to back test against stock and Neuspeeds. Will post results. Not sure on prices yet but will post with the results. Now I also have put together a massive AP racing brake set-up for most VW's. The kit uses 4 piston racing calipers with 12" rotors with optional 2 piston rear calipers. Now don't write back and say why would anyone want such monster brakes and how the stock brakes are all anyone would ever want. I agree for street use this is major overkill but some people want to have everything and something almost no one else will have. We have not tested these yet but hope to after we install our turbo on ND's project GLX. I do not have them yet as the cost of 2 - 2.5k is a little much even for us. Since the GLX has the 11.5" set-up and stops like NOW!, it may be a while. So if you are serious call me and you can be one of the first. I do have a spec sheet on the calipers. FYI. As for our ND/Borla systems sorry we are so far behind but we are trying to hire 3 more employees to free up others to finish the R&D on these systems. I will keep you posted and if you want to be added to the list of people waiting drop me a note with year, engine and if you want twin or single tips. Thanks for your time. **TT** From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Fri Oct 13 18:38 PDT 1995 Received: from mailer by fshpp1 with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA07127; Fri, 13 Oct 1995 18:38:09 -0700 Return-Path: Received: from desiree.teleport.com by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #4) id <01HWEGKZHBEO003MFN@UG.EDS.COM>; Fri, 13 Oct 1995 18:34:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id KAA28988 for corrado-l-outgoing; Fri, 13 Oct 1995 10:43:42 -0700 Received: from mailhost1.primenet.com (mailhost1.primenet.com [198.68.32.51]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA28878 for ; Fri, 13 Oct 1995 10:43:22 -0700 Received: from usr2.primenet.com (root@usr2.primenet.com [198.68.32.12]) by mailhost1.primenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA20292 for ; Fri, 13 Oct 1995 10:44:21 GMT Received: (from ariff@localhost) by usr2.primenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA04172; Fri, 13 Oct 1995 10:43:16 -0700 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 10:43:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Ariff Sidi Subject: Re: Repco Metalmasters In-Reply-To: <199510120339.UAA26841@ix8.ix.netcom.com> Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com To: corrado-l@teleport.com Reply-To: corrado-l@teleport.com Message-Id: X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Precedence: bulk Status: RO These brakes are fine. I'm using them on my '92 SLC with the stock rotors. As long as you don't do anything stupid like speeding when they're cold (which is just as bad for your engine anyway) they'll be fine. Give yourself a little extra room for stopping initially, onafter a few stops they're warm enough for regular driving. I domn't drive my car very hard at all, which means that I don't always get them veryh hot, but I'm perfectly happy with them. Sure there have been a few times when I've had to brake hard and the car just keeps rolling for a little, but then they heat up and stop the car pretty quickly after that. The only time you ever notice that they require a little heat to use is when you have to slam them real hard, which doesn't happen often to me. But, like I said.. be conscious of how much you've been using the brakes and give yourself the extra room you'll be needing. They're fine.. sure they are a little tougher to live with at first, everyone makes them sound like they don't work at all.. but think about it.. they ARE brake pads, which do the job quite well. Besides, barely any dust and no squeeking is great! ________________________________________________________________ ariff@primenet.com asidi@ucsd.edu carpe diem vrsix@ix.netcom.com vrsix@aol.com '92 SLC (corrado-l member) On Wed, 11 Oct 1995, Qui Le wrote: > In spite of the numerous recommendations AGAINST the metalmasters for > everyday driving, I'm going to get these for my next set of brake pads > anyway. Many have posted that these pads take a while to heat up and is > best used for racing applications. Some have even mentioned that one > might slide passed a stop light in a cold moring. > > But they're also less prone to wear and squeeling, right? > > I do a lot of hard driving, thus a lot of hard stopping. In fact, I > just do a lot of driving in general and I have just about had it with > squeeling brakes. I have yet to find a set of pads that do not squeel. > It's just too embarrassing most of time to pull up somewhere and > squueeel to a stop. > > One concern I have is that whether or not these will work with the > stock(undrilled) rotors. These are often sold with the cross-drilled > rotor packages. Will these be effective if I run them with the stock > rotors? > > Any comments? Am I crazy to put these on my STREET car? > > -Qui > '90 G60 > From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Fri Jan 5 00:39 PST 1996 Received: from mailer by fshpp1 with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA12480; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 00:39:49 -0800 Return-Path: Received: from desiree.teleport.com by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #4) id <01HZMRKQEACW000CO0@UG.EDS.COM>; Fri, 05 Jan 1996 00:37:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id AAA05500 for corrado-l-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 00:06:21 -0800 Received: from mail06.mail.aol.com (mail06.mail.aol.com [152.163.172.108]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA05479 for ; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 00:06:15 -0800 Received: by mail06.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id DAA24448 for corrado-l@teleport.com; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 03:05:40 -0500 Date: Fri, 05 Jan 1996 03:05:40 -0500 From: EIPTUNING@aol.com Subject: Re: Brake rotors Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com To: corrado-l@teleport.com Reply-To: corrado-l@teleport.com Message-Id: <960105030539_107094567@mail06.mail.aol.com> X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Precedence: bulk Status: RO We started using the new line of Power Stop rotors for virtually all VW performance upgrades. One reason is that they start with Brembo (as in excellent) pieces. Next they CNC cross drill them, balance them, then Cadmium plate them better than any I've seen before. Their priced competative with anything else out there. -----------> RICH !! <------------- From owner-corrado-l@teleport.com Mon Apr 8 15:52 PDT 1996 Received: from mailer by fshpp1 with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA17565; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 15:52:45 -0700 Return-Path: Received: from desiree.teleport.com by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #4) id <01I3AYSUI768004D35@UG.EDS.COM>; Mon, 08 Apr 1996 15:48:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA19716; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 15:48:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by desiree.teleport.com (bulk_mailer v1.3); Mon, 8 Apr 1996 15:47:58 -0700 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA19640 for corrado-l-outgoing; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 15:47:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from netcom21.netcom.com (jmillick@netcom21.netcom.com [192.100.81.135]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA19616 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 15:47:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by netcom21.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id PAA29190; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 15:47:50 -0700 Date: Mon, 08 Apr 1996 15:47:50 -0700 (PDT) From: jmillick@netcom.com (Jim Millick) Subject: Slotted or Drilled Rotors Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com To: corrado-l@teleport.com (Corrado Digest) Reply-To: jmillick@netcom.com (Jim Millick) Message-Id: <199604082247.PAA29190@netcom21.netcom.com> X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Status: RO spawn@remus.rutgers.edu writes: > Okay, I have a question...which brake rotors provide less > fade and dissipate heat faster? Slotted rotors or cross > drilled rotors. There was an extensive discussion on this on the Porsche mailing list last year (check their website, it may be archived). The expert consensus was that slotted was more than adequate unless you're running a pure race car. > Are there any disadvantages or advantages to using cross > drilled to slotted? Check the archive to be sure, but if I remember correctly, cross-drilled gives you lower unsprung weight, and dissipates heat better, but suffers from more warping problems, and is more difficult and pricey to manufacture. Slotted relieves the laminar air layer between the pad and the rotor surface, (apparently there is a build-up under heavy breaking that reduces efficiency) giving you a better grip without losing surface area to the cross-drilled holes. Jim -- ``Nonsensical repetitive behavior is a common trait of mental illness.'' -- Dana Sculley From owner-corrado-l@teleport.com Mon May 20 22:58 PDT 1996 Received: from mailer by fshpp1 with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA01914; Mon, 20 May 1996 22:58:13 -0700 Return-Path: Received: from desiree.teleport.com by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #4) id <01I4Y1XMAPJK00F02A@UG.EDS.COM>; Mon, 20 May 1996 22:55:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA07262; Mon, 20 May 1996 22:53:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by desiree.teleport.com (bulk_mailer v1.3); Mon, 20 May 1996 22:53:49 -0700 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA07168 for corrado-l-outgoing; Mon, 20 May 1996 22:53:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from intermind.net (root@terminus.intermind.net [199.3.230.2]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA07148 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 22:53:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from VR586 (ppp14.intermind.net [199.3.230.214]) by intermind.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA12187 for ; Mon, 20 May 1996 22:47:59 -0700 Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 22:47:59 -0700 From: corrado@intermind.net (Michael Balasko) Subject: Wilwood Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com X-Sender: corrado@intermind.net To: corrado-l-digest@teleport.com Reply-To: corrado@intermind.net (Michael Balasko) Message-Id: <199605210547.WAA12187@intermind.net> X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Precedence: bulk Status: RO The Wilwood Calpiers are the DynaLite II's, and the ones I personally would get are the Dynalite III's. They are same except the II's except the III's are cast one piece. Make sure you ask for the polished ones. they are bitchen. Make sure you use the M10 to 1/4-27NPT adapters on the new brake lines.(Yes, you need to get stainless lines, and the overall length is over 18inches. ) Mike The Wilwood Guy. From owner-corrado-l@teleport.com Tue Jun 4 20:57 PDT 1996 Received: from mailer by fshpp1 with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA25781; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 20:57:13 -0700 Return-Path: Received: from desiree.teleport.com by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #4) id <01I5IW3C1K1S00HRMG@UG.EDS.COM>; Tue, 04 Jun 1996 20:53:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA23803; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 20:50:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by desiree.teleport.com (bulk_mailer v1.3); Tue, 4 Jun 1996 20:50:46 -0700 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA23721 for corrado-l-outgoing; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 20:50:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nasc.mass.edu (pine.nasc.mass.edu [134.241.55.62]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA23689 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 20:50:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by nasc.mass.edu (8.6.10/SMI-4.1) id DAA04542; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 03:53:02 GMT Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 23:53:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Hulda Jowett Subject: Re: Brake Up Grade In-Reply-To: <199606041203.FAA21147@kzsu.Stanford.EDU> Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com To: bdp Cc: corrado-l@teleport.com Reply-To: Hulda Jowett Message-Id: X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Precedence: bulk Status: RO > I'm thinking of going with the following: > > Mintex Redbox pads, front and rear > ND slotted/vented rotors front and rear > > Does anyone have any suggestions or comments? I was thinking of the > slotted because I don't do much racing, but would like something > which worked a bit nicer than stock becuase I'd like to do some > racing (i.e. Buttonwillow last weekend (look for a story tomorrow on > my WWW page, I'll post the URL) and some auto-x). I'm not sure I > need cross-drilled, but I know Nick S. highly recommends them. Well today I faded my Redbox pads BAD! We are talking non existent. Maybe I should buy the next compound higher. I must say, I'm usually very easy on the brakeing system in my VR6, it's never stopped the car as well as the brakes on my G60. I'm kind of disapointed in the pads, I did not expect them to fade, kind of scary when your approaching a hairpin turn at 110, good thing I got on them early. If you will be doing any hard stops from high speed, get the pads above the redbox. Later, Brian 93 VR6 C in need of new brakes From owner-corrado-l@teleport.com Wed Jul 24 12:33 PDT 1996 Received: from mailer by fshpp1 with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA01786; Wed, 24 Jul 1996 12:33:40 -0700 Return-Path: Received: from greta.teleport.com (greta.teleport.com) by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF V5.0-6 #15834) id <01I7G93UV0DC001364@UG.EDS.COM> for jan@UG.EDS.COM; Wed, 24 Jul 1996 12:31:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by greta.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA12613; Wed, 24 Jul 1996 12:23:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by greta.teleport.com (bulk_mailer v1.3); Wed, 24 Jul 1996 12:22:56 -0700 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by greta.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA12483 for corrado-l-outgoing; Wed, 24 Jul 1996 12:22:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from desiree.teleport.com (desiree.teleport.com [192.108.254.21]) by greta.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA12468 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 1996 12:22:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thud (thud.strong-funds.com [204.154.224.29]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA19614 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 1996 12:22:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailserver.strong-funds.com by thud (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA05058; Wed, 24 Jul 1996 14:21:27 -0500 Received: by mailserver.strong-funds.com with Microsoft Mail id <31F6940B@mailserver.strong-funds.com>; Wed, 24 Jul 1996 14:22:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 13:47:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Steve Kosloske Subject: RE: Brake rotors: what to get? Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com To: corrado-l Reply-To: Steve Kosloske Message-Id: <31F6940B@mailserver.strong-funds.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Encoding: 57 TEXT Precedence: bulk Status: RO Slotted are probably the better deal of the two. To add my 2 cents, are you going to be using these for racing? If you only use your Corrado for a daily driver, don't waste your money on fancy brakes. The stock brakes are more than enough for the car, and you could put the cash into something much more useful. Also, make real sure you want metal pads, especially in cold climates. If you live in the land of long winters, you'll start to hate Metalmasters, they have to be heated good to stop, and you'll be riding the brakes a lot to get them warmed up on those cold days. ---------- From: owner-corrado-l[SMTP:owner-corrado-l@teleport.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 1996 11:19 AM To: Vincent Shek Cc: corrado-l Subject: Re: Brake rotors: what to get? Hi, Get slotted rotors. Cross-drilled is just for looks and slotted will give you better performance. And it won't crack like cross-drilled. Even Porsche cast cross-drilled rotors crack. Not sure about lines. Most shops I've talked to said it won't do anything but I'm not sure if they've tried it. And try ATE Super Blue Racing fluid. I put some in my car a few months ago and what a difference! But then again, my old fluid was almost 2 years old. :) Gary Vincent Shek wrote: > > I am deciding what rotors to use once the stock rotor are worn out. > Cross-drilled, slotted or stock rotor? Neuspeed cross-drilled > rotors(cadiumn coated) seem to be very good and they came with > MetalMaster pads but I am afraid they would crack very easily. What > about slotted rotors? Do they wear pads quicker than drilled rotors? > Slotted rotors seem to be the best compromise between stock rotors and > drilled rotors but I have not heard anyone who had experience with them. > What about OEM vented rotors, they are rather expensive but are they > good for occasional track uses? > > BTW, are stainless steel brake lines worth the money? Are they suitable > for colder climates? This is probably my first change before the rotors > and pads as I am going to bleed the brake this weekend. > > Thanks! > -- > Vincent Shek > '94 Corrado > mailto:vincent@algorithmics.com -- Toronto, Canada