MULTI-FUNCTION INDICATOR FOR PASSAT, G60, SLC & GLIs ================================== Editor: Jan Vandenbrande From: dilmore@cray.com (Robert J. Dilmore) Subject: Re: Weird MPG reading on MFA (86 GTI) Date: 22 Sep 92 12:08:40 GMT Some edits by Jan Ok fellow techo-nerds here it is: Multi - function indicator test Perform MFI check mode and measuring mode test before doing any repairs The following works on Passats, G60s, and probable other cars as well. CHECK MODE TEST =============== Check mode test verifies MFI is operating with the correct base vehicle information a. set MFI memory switch to position 1 b. switch ignition ON c. press and hold MFI select button d. switch ignition OFF, then back ON e. release mode select button (engine MAP code is displayed) f. press and release mode select button to advance to next mode (country code should be displayed) g. continue pressing and releasing mode select button to advance sequentially from mode to mode. PASSAT Readouts: ---------------- FUNCTION MODE INDICATED VALUE DISPLAYED Engine MAP code - 013 Country code clock 1 speedometer drive ratio L/100km 920 Upper RPM limit* km 7418 Lower RPM limit km/h 1175 Deceleration fuel shutoff oil temp. ** Segment test - All segments light up *= The displayed numerical value must match the chart, it is NOT an indication of the upper and lower overrun fuel cutoff rpm. **= The displayed numerical value has no importance for the check. MFI is Ok if any value is displayed. 1990 US G60 with AT Stage I Readouts [jan]: ------------------------------------------- FUNCTION MODE INDICATED VALUE DISPLAYED Engine MAP code - 026 Country code clock 4 speedometer drive ratio mpg 955 Upper RPM limit* miles 7418 Lower RPM limit mph 1175 Deceleration fuel shutoff oil temp. ** (56) Segment test - All segments light up 1992 US Corrado SLC/VR6 Readouts [jan]: --------------------------------------- FUNCTION MODE INDICATED VALUE DISPLAYED Engine MAP code - 039 Country code clock 4 speedometer drive ratio? mpg 6010 ? Upper RPM limit* miles 7418 Lower RPM limit mph 1175 Deceleration fuel shutoff oil temp. ** (220) Segment test - All segments light up ? ? 13 ? ? 0.08 MEASURING MODE TEST =================== measuring mode that provides a display of measured fuctions during vehicle operation. 1. Set MFI memory switch to position 2 2. switch ignition on 3. press and hold MFI mode select button. 4. switch ignition off , then back on 5. release mode select button (first function is displayed,see chart) 6. start engine and drive vehicle 7. press and release mode select button to advance display FUNCTION/DISPLAY mode/symbol displayed Test sum of programmed bytes * - Intake manifold (mbar)** clock Engine RPM *** km/h Momentary fuel consumption L/100 km Signal from speed sensor **** km Oil temperture (c) oil temperature Ambient temperature ambient temperature *= Displayed value has no importance **= The VDO multifunction indicator displays intake manifold vacuum as a decimal numeric value instead of in mbar. Chart in manual ***= If incorrect go to trouble shooting section (not included:() ****= Numeric value should change. (formula for Can. not included) NOTES: THIS IS FOR A PASSAT , 12 pages of troubleshooting flow charts NOT included 10 pages of schematics NOT included 1990 US G60 with AT Stage I Readouts: ------------------------------------- FUNCTION/DISPLAY mode/symbol displayed Test sum of programmed bytes * 624 Intake manifold (mbar)** Varies: 44-160 Engine RPM *** 780 idle, varies Momentary fuel consumption 0.0 & up Signal from speed sensor **** Varies 7547 Oil temperture (c) Varies Ambient temperature Varies 1992 US SLC/VR6 Readouts: ------------------------- FUNCTION/DISPLAY mode/symbol displayed ? 7558 Test sum of programmed bytes * C10 Intake manifold (mbar)** Varies: 245-750 Engine RPM *** 666 idle, varies Momentary fuel consumption 0.0 & up Signal from speed sensor **** Varies 1112 Oil temperture (c) Varies Ambient temperature Varies ---- In article arch@gandalf.pei.com (Arch Mott) writes: > Boy, I'm glad to see I'm not the only techno-nerd who immediately ran home > to tweak his/her MFA! ;^) > > Actually, on my '86 GLi I got 7 different values. If you moved the mode > switch (you know, the I/II switch that goes from "last reset mode" to "elapsed > since the last time you turned the car mode") the ambient temperature > position indicated two different values. I, too, would sure like to know > what thes numbers represent. I did notice, though, that they don't appear to > change at all when I drive around? From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Wed May 3 20:50 PDT 1995 Received: from mailer by fshpp1 with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA13809; Wed, 3 May 1995 20:50:21 -0700 Return-Path: Received: from desiree.teleport.com by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #4) id <01HQ2VWFSW4W003RJ3@UG.EDS.COM>; Wed, 03 May 1995 20:48:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) id UAA10902 for corrado-l-outgoing; Wed, 3 May 1995 20:35:44 -0700 Received: from UNIVSCVM.CSD.SCAROLINA.EDU (univscvm.csd.scarolina.edu [129.252.41.4]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA10870 for ; Wed, 3 May 1995 20:35:32 -0700 Received: from UNIVSCVM.CSD.SCAROLINA.EDU by UNIVSCVM.CSD.SCAROLINA.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 8190; Wed, 03 May 95 23:34:39 EDT Received: from UNIVSCVM (NJE origin C0265@UNIVSCVM) by UNIVSCVM.CSD.SCAROLINA.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 8100; Wed, 3 May 1995 23:34:38 -0400 Date: Wed, 03 May 1995 22:49:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Mike Stith Subject: Re: multi function indicator In-Reply-To: Message of Wed, 03 May 1995 15:41:03 -0600 (CST) from Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com To: corrado-l@teleport.com Reply-To: corrado-l@teleport.com Message-Id: <199505040335.UAA10870@desiree.teleport.com> X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Precedence: bulk Status: RO <> According to my Bently book, the info given in "Check mode test functions" (MFA switch to position 1, ignition on, press and hold mode select button in, ignition off, then back on) is as follow (up to August, 1990, pp 91.10-91.11): Function Times mode pressed Mode Indicated Value displayed ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Engine Map code 0 -- 018 Country code 1 clock 4 (USA) 1 (Canada) Speedo drive ratio 2 mpg or L/100km 955 (USA) 950 (Canada) Upper rpm limit 3 miles or km 7418 Lower rpm limit 4 mph or km/h 1175 Decelleration fuel shut-off pressure(mbar) 5 oil temp. 57 Segment test 6 -- all segments on For "Measuring mode test functions" (switch on "2", same setup): Function Times mode pressed Mode/symbol inciated ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Test sum of programmed bytes 0 -- Intake manifold vauum (mbar) 1 clock Engine rpm 2 mph or km/h Momentary fuel consuption 3 mpg or L/100 km Signal from speed sensor 4 miles or km Oil temperature (degrees F or C) 5 oil temp Ambient(outside) temp (degrees F or C) 6 air temp The differences from above for Aug. 1990 thru 1992 model year: Engine map code-- 026 (G60) or 039 (VR6) Speedo drive ratio--6160 (USA) or 3800 (Canada) Check mode test function "5" is "Overrun cut-off vacuum (mbar)"-- 320(G60) or 220 (VR6) The 1993 model year and after documentation doesn't seem to list the two sets of values, but refers to a procedure like the above but using the odometer reset button instead which then lists the following: Function Function Meaning number displayed ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 1 Distance pulse number 3735(All countries except USA and G. Britain 6010--Great Britain and USA 2 Country code 1(All but USA & GB); 2(G.B); 3(U.S.A.) 3 Speedometer/Tach not required for troubleshooting; used for production only 4 No. of cylinders 6 5 Segment test All LCD segments selected 6 Pulse from speedometer 4 pulses counter per 1 wheel revolution vehicle speed sensor 7 Engine speed (rpm) 8 Program version sames as "3" above <> Oddly enough, my driver's side handle broke (internally, not externally) about 2 months ago. What was really sad was that the service techs were't smart enough to transfer the old lock cylinder from the broken handle to the replacem nt. When I went to pick up the car, they handed me 2 new keys and explained that they fit the new door handle, so I'd have to use one key to open the driver's door, then use the original key for the ignition. After I asked why they hadn't transferred the old lock cylinder from the broken door handle to the new one (or set the new cylinder to the same key code as the old one), they took the car back into the garage and transferred the cylinder. I refused to pay for any labor charges for the 2nd go around and since I have an extended warranty, the whole thing only cost me the $50 deductible. Mike Stith Computer Services Division University of South Carolina 514 Main Street Columbia, SC 29208 803-777-4409 Bitnet: C0265@UNIVSCVM Internet: C0265@univscvm.csd.scarolina.edu From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Wed May 10 19:43 PDT 1995 Received: from mailer by fshpp1 with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA18262; Wed, 10 May 1995 19:43:08 -0700 Return-Path: Received: from desiree.teleport.com by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #4) id <01HQCLLBMVS0005OIV@UG.EDS.COM>; Wed, 10 May 1995 19:41:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) id TAA28154 for corrado-l-outgoing; Wed, 10 May 1995 19:28:45 -0700 Received: from oasys.dt.navy.mil ([130.46.1.53]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA28117 for ; Wed, 10 May 1995 19:28:40 -0700 Received: by oasys.dt.navy.mil (5.61/oasys.dt.navy.mil) id AA16108; Wed, 10 May 95 22:28:38 EDT Date: Wed, 10 May 1995 21:09 -0400 (EDT) From: cavalier@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Leonard Cavalier) Subject: Re: multi function indicator In-Reply-To: Message of 4 May 1995 07:19 Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com To: corrado-l@teleport.com Cc: cavalier@oasys.dt.navy.mil Reply-To: corrado-l@teleport.com Message-Id: <9505110228.AA16108@oasys.dt.navy.mil> X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Precedence: bulk Status: RO >My MFA does not display all this stuff-- it only displays the mileage, MPG >and oil temp, I think. I'm not positive what the third item is that is >displayed, but I certainly know that there isn't an `engine code' or >any of those things. My MFA only displays three items of data, and they >don't change from register 1 to register 2. > >I've got a 93 SLC. I was always intrigued by all the stuff you other people >managed to get out of your MFA's. > > Mike (mvoorhis@wpi.edu) > 86 Jetta GL, 93 Corrado SLC, 67 Beetle And I the same, on all counts. But then I remembered that I printed out a TSB at TRAK Auto on the MFA, and lo and behold, here is what is says (Reader's Digest Condensed Version): Group 91, Bulletin No. 94-01, Feb. 15, 1994 Model: 1993-on Volkswagen Corrado Supersedes Bulletin Group 91, No. 93-04 date June 30, 1993 MULTI-FUNCTION INDICATOR (MFA) TROUBLESHOOTING * Calling up MFA Check Mode Test 1. Set memory switch to 1 2. Switch ignition on 3. Press/hold mode select switch 4. Switch ignition off, then back on 5. Release mode select switch * MFA Check Mode Displays: - Momentary Fuel Consumption - Oil Temperature - Outside Temperature (-40 displayed if temp sensor not connected) [So far, nothing too exciting. This is what I have seen on my '93 SLC, same displays whether using memory switch position 1 or 2.] [--->>> Now the new exciting stuff!! <<<---] * Calling up Instrument Cluster Check Mode Test 1. Switch ignition on 2. Press trip odometer reset button and hold down. 3. Switch ignition off, then back on again 4. Release odometer reset button The function and number and data appear on the display window of the speedometer. Press and release odometer reseat button to advance to next function. %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Function Function Displayed Data Displayed, for engine code AAA Number (2.8 L, VR6) -------- ------------------ ----------------------------------- 1 | Distance pulse number* | 3735 | 6010 | 6010 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | | | | 2 | Country Code* | 1 | 3 | 4 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | | 3 | Speedometer/Tachometer | Not required for troubleshooting; | | used only for production ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | | | | 4 | No. of cylinders* | 6 | 6 | 6 [duh!] ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | | 5 | Segment Test | All segments of display light up ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | | 6 | Pulse from Speedometer | 4 pulses counted per 1 wheel revolution | Vehicle Speed Sensor | and added to counter total. Display | (VAS) | range from 0 to 9999 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | | 7 | Engine Speed (RPM) | Engine speed (RPM) is displayed ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | | 8 | Program Version | Not required for troubleshooting; | | used for production only. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% * If the values displayed od not match those in the table, replace MFA printed circuit board. Country Code: 1 - All countries (including Canada) except USA and Great Britain 3 - Great Britain 4 - USA Distance Pulse Number If the displayed value does not match the value in the table, the distance driven will be recorded incorrectly. The distance pulse number is a constant, engine-specific value. The distance pulses for any given driven distance can be calculated using the number in the table. Example: Distance pulse number x distance driven = pulses for driven (from table) (miles or km.) distance 6010 x 0.5 = 3005 The TSB then goes on to give lots of good troubleshooting info for the MFA, including about three pages of flowcharts for troubleshooting the memory and mode switches alone! Unfortunately, most of the fixes amount to replacing the printed circuit board. :-( As I believe someone else suggested earlier, if the MFA shows odd behavior, e.g., unrealistic displays, no displays, etc. it can be reset by disconnecting the battery ground strap and then reconnecting it (WARNING: be sure to have radio code!!). This is also suggested for "synchronizing" the "digital clock counter" on VDO instrument clusters if clock deviates more than 5 seconds / 24 hours. Other implied accuracy specs.: Driving distance display - deviations up to max. +/- 4% are permissible. As for MPG, the text refers to a "fuel consumption signal" from the Engine Control Module (ECM). I wonder if this is a different signal than the engine vacuum (a calculated flow based on fuel injector pulse frequency, which is determined by ECM?), since there is no engine vacuum readout in the test modes. This may explain why some folks have said their MPG is not too accurate while others (including me) say theirs is quite accurate. Another interesting tidbit: says outside air temperature sensor is located on right side behind front bumper. Well, I haven't tried this on my '93 SLC yet, but I'm sure going to - after all this typing I need some fun! - Lenny Cavalier cavalier@oasys.dt.navy.mil '93 Corrado SLC VR6 \/\/\/ From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Wed Jun 28 17:20 PDT 1995 Received: from mailer by fshpp1 with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA07029; Wed, 28 Jun 1995 17:20:02 -0700 Return-Path: Received: from desiree.teleport.com by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #4) id <01HS8WVPDX5C005Q3R@UG.EDS.COM>; Wed, 28 Jun 1995 17:17:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) id RAA08624 for corrado-l-outgoing; Wed, 28 Jun 1995 17:10:43 -0700 Received: from ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (root@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu [128.83.108.1]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA08595 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 1995 17:10:36 -0700 Received: from [128.83.204.109] (slip-2-9.ots.utexas.edu [128.83.204.109]) by ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (8.6.11/8.6.11/cc-wf-sunos.mc-1.1) with SMTP id TAA12503 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 1995 19:10:25 -0500 Date: Wed, 28 Jun 1995 19:10:25 -0500 From: jsewell@mail.utexas.edu (Jason Sewell) Subject: Re: "MFA trick" Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com X-Sender: ifcb411@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu To: corrado-l@teleport.com Reply-To: corrado-l@teleport.com Message-Id: X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Precedence: bulk Status: RO Lawrence Wu Wrote: > [Hulda Jowett Wrote:] > >My 93, with the new style gauges, only gives me 3 functions. Bummer. > >Anyone else with a 93 that does this? > >Same here. All the new gauges (after '92) have only three I guess. > > >Lawrence Wu On the '93 SLC, it's a little bit different.Instead of holding the selector button on the end of the right stalk. Hold the *Tripometer Reset Button* while you turn off and on the ignition. Now you should be able to cycle through the various functions. This is documented in a FAQ, I believe. __________________________________________________________ Jason Sewell ifcb411@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu jsewell@mail.utexas.edu <--Preferred http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~ifcb411/ From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Wed Jul 5 15:09 PDT 1995 Received: from mailer by fshpp1 with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA26623; Wed, 5 Jul 1995 15:09:04 -0700 Return-Path: Received: from desiree.teleport.com by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #4) id <01HSIKCSI4RK000D9S@UG.EDS.COM>; Wed, 05 Jul 1995 15:07:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) id OAA07150 for corrado-l-outgoing; Wed, 5 Jul 1995 14:59:12 -0700 Received: from oasys.dt.navy.mil (oasys.dt.navy.mil [130.46.1.53]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA07121 for ; Wed, 5 Jul 1995 14:59:05 -0700 Received: by oasys.dt.navy.mil (5.61/oasys.dt.navy.mil) id AA22948; Wed, 5 Jul 95 17:59:02 EDT Date: Wed, 05 Jul 1995 17:49 -0400 (EDT) From: cavalier@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Leonard Cavalier) Subject: MFA - "Trick" Computer In-Reply-To: Message of 28 Jun 1995 18:51 Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com To: corrado-l@teleport.com Reply-To: corrado-l@teleport.com Message-Id: <9507052159.AA22948@oasys.dt.navy.mil> X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Precedence: bulk Status: RO OK, I'm reading all these posts about trying to get the MFA Diagnostics modes, or whatever, and I keep thinking about the TSB that I laboriously typed and posted a while ago. I'm a bit behind on my list reading, since I've been away, so somebody may have already addressed the issue. But I can't hold back anymore, so here's a re-post of the info: ... But then I remembered that I printed out a TSB at TRAK Auto on the MFA, and lo and behold, here is what is says (Reader's Digest Condensed Version): Group 91, Bulletin No. 94-01, Feb. 15, 1994 Model: 1993-on Volkswagen Corrado Supersedes Bulletin Group 91, No. 93-04 date June 30, 1993 MULTI-FUNCTION INDICATOR (MFA) TROUBLESHOOTING * Calling up MFA Check Mode Test 1. Set memory switch to 1 2. Switch ignition on 3. Press/hold mode select switch 4. Switch ignition off, then back on 5. Release mode select switch * MFA Check Mode Displays: - Momentary Fuel Consumption - Oil Temperature - Outside Temperature (-40 displayed if temp sensor not connected) [So far, nothing too exciting. This is what I have seen on my '93 SLC, same displays whether using memory switch position 1 or 2.] [--->>> Now the new exciting stuff!! <<<---] * Calling up Instrument Cluster Check Mode Test 1. Switch ignition on 2. Press trip odometer reset button and hold down. 3. Switch ignition off, then back on again 4. Release odometer reset button The function and number and data appear on the display window of the speedometer. Press and release odometer reset button to advance to next function. %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Function Function Displayed Data Displayed, for engine code AAA Number (2.8 L, VR6) -------- ------------------ ----------------------------------- 1 | Distance pulse number* | 3735 | 6010 | 6010 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | | | | 2 | Country Code* | 1 | 3 | 4 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | | 3 | Speedometer/Tachometer | Not required for troubleshooting; | | used only for production ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | | | | 4 | No. of cylinders* | 6 | 6 | 6 [duh!] ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | | 5 | Segment Test | All segments of display light up ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | | 6 | Pulse from Speedometer | 4 pulses counted per 1 wheel revolution | Vehicle Speed Sensor | and added to counter total. Display | (VAS) | range from 0 to 9999 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | | 7 | Engine Speed (RPM) | Engine speed (RPM) is displayed ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | | 8 | Program Version | Not required for troubleshooting; | | used for production only. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% * If the values displayed od not match those in the table, replace MFA printed circuit board. Country Code: 1 - All countries (including Canada) except USA and Great Britain 3 - Great Britain 4 - USA Distance Pulse Number If the displayed value does not match the value in the table, the distance driven will be recorded incorrectly. The distance pulse number is a constant, engine-specific value. The distance pulses for any given driven distance can be calculated using the number in the table. Example: Distance pulse number x distance driven = pulses for driven (from table) (miles or km.) distance 6010 x 0.5 = 3005 The TSB then goes on to give lots of good troubleshooting info for the MFA, including about three pages of flowcharts for troubleshooting the memory and mode switches alone! Unfortunately, most of the fixes amount to replacing the printed circuit board. :-( As I believe someone else suggested earlier, if the MFA shows odd behavior, e.g., unrealistic displays, no displays, etc. it can be reset by disconnecting the battery ground strap and then reconnecting it (WARNING: be sure to have radio code!!). This is also suggested for "synchronizing" the "digital clock counter" on VDO instrument clusters if clock deviates more than 5 seconds / 24 hours. Other implied accuracy specs.: Driving distance display - deviations up to max. +/- 4% are permissible. As for MPG, the text refers to a "fuel consumption signal" from the Engine Control Module (ECM). I wonder if this is a different signal than the engine vacuum (a calculated flow based on fuel injector pulse frequency, which is determined by ECM?), since there is no engine vacuum readout in the test modes. This may explain why some folks have said their MPG is not too accurate while others (including me) say theirs is quite accurate. Another interesting tidbit: says outside air temperature sensor is located on right side behind front bumper. Well, I haven't tried this on my '93 SLC yet, but I'm sure going to - after all this typing I need some fun! - Lenny Cavalier cavalier@oasys.dt.navy.mil '93 Corrado SLC VR6 \/\/\/ From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Tue May 23 13:35 PDT 1995 Received: from mailer by fshpp1 with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA05403; Tue, 23 May 1995 13:35:33 -0700 Return-Path: Received: from desiree.teleport.com by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #4) id <01HQUEKA3M74002EMB@UG.EDS.COM>; Tue, 23 May 1995 13:33:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) id NAA06261 for corrado-l-outgoing; Tue, 23 May 1995 13:21:05 -0700 Received: from decws3.coe.wvu.edu (decws3.coe.wvu.edu [157.182.83.23]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA06250 for ; Tue, 23 May 1995 13:21:02 -0700 Received: by decws3.coe.wvu.edu (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA04655; Tue, 23 May 95 16:19:22 -0400 Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 16:19:22 -0400 (EDT) From: ja@decws3.coe.wvu.edu (John Anderson) Subject: Aux Gauges and G60 Problems In-Reply-To: <199505231918.OAA27285@vixen.nrlssc.navy.mil>; from "Kenneth Finnegan" at May 23, 95 2:17 pm Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com To: corrado-l@teleport.com Reply-To: corrado-l@teleport.com Message-Id: <9505232019.AA04655@decws3.coe.wvu.edu> X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Precedence: bulk Status: RO Could someone with the factory aux. gauges on a G60 answer some info for me, since reading that article in MOTOR I figure I'm going to give a go at diagnosing my own problems and want to put an accurate boost gauge in line somewhere. First, is the factory gauge mechanical or electrical and in either case where is the sender plumbed off of? I have some super accurate 20 psi mechanical gauges and flexible hard plastic hose to run lines if I know where to put it, I got a bad feeling the factory is probably electrical and located after the intercooler on the big pipe rising to the manifold where my current pressure switch? is located but if anyone has a suggestion for a place to attach a tube for a mechanical gauge, give it to me. Second, what are your boost pressures like, the article said something like 9 psi at idle climbing to 12 or so under boost regulated by the ISV, my question is how fast does the bypass valve close off and give full boost, immediately upon pressing the pedal or what? If someone could watch carefully upon starting off I am particularly interested in whether or not full boost is achieved by 2500 rpm where I experience the mysterious "lag" problem as that might indicate the ISV's regulation is already in effect and is messed up from a faulty pressure sensor or leaking line, in fact I would plumb the pressure gauge off the tap for the computer but it would probably screw with the sensor and give me other problems. Oh BTW, info from a car running a stock pulley is of course of interest to me primarily but someone with a kit could at least tell me the trends. Oh, one other question, I could take the pressure off the tap on the manifold for the fuel pressure regulator with a little T, does this sound like an OK idea to anyone? OK and one more, anyone with both gauges and the 2500-3000 rpm lag problem? if so look and see if your boost fluctuates (down), stutters, pauses or whatever during the "lag" as this would surely indicate the problem is not with the timing being retarded but instead with the ISV letting off pressure. Any help greatly appreciated as I'm nearly fed up with the wundercoupe. John Anderson ja@coe.wvu.edu '71 Westy Virginia, '90 Corrado G60 From owner-corrado-l@teleport.com Fri Apr 26 09:32 PDT 1996 Received: from mailer by fshpp1 with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA22495; Fri, 26 Apr 1996 09:32:03 -0700 Return-Path: Received: from desiree.teleport.com by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #4) id <01I3ZQNZC66O007F2W@UG.EDS.COM>; Fri, 26 Apr 1996 09:25:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA21860; Fri, 26 Apr 1996 09:24:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by desiree.teleport.com (bulk_mailer v1.3); Fri, 26 Apr 1996 09:24:00 -0700 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA21458 for corrado-l-outgoing; Fri, 26 Apr 1996 09:23:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from edsug.com (mailer.ug.eds.com [134.244.3.234]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA21442 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 1996 09:23:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from camhpp49.ug.eds.com by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #4) id <01I3ZQM5GTQO009RPW@UG.EDS.COM>; Fri, 26 Apr 1996 09:23:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by camhpp49.ug.eds.com (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA18004; Fri, 26 Apr 1996 09:26:57 -0700 Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 09:26:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Jan Vandenbrande Subject: Re: MFA readings? (fwd) Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com To: corrado-l@teleport.com Reply-To: Jan Vandenbrande Message-Id: <01I3ZQM5HD0Y009RPW@UG.EDS.COM> X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Precedence: bulk Status: RO > Switch the MFA to 2 position. > Hold the Button on the side of the MFA switch down and hold it there > Turn you ignition off and then on. > Let go of the switch > Press the button once. > It will show you the Intake vacuum. > Intake vacuum = psi > 172 2.9 > 192 5.8 > 211 8.7 > 228 11.6 > 242 14.5 > 255 17.4 > > I've tested this on my car in third gear and drove it up and into > redline. The most highest reading I get is 238 right before I let go of > the pedal. I have the HP Gen II kit with ISV bypass. Shouldn't I be > getting a 240+ reading. I guess it's that leak which is causing my > engine to hunt. I finally got around this with my G60 last night. It was kind off exciting because to get any reasonable readings you need to be in a high gear, full load (full throttle) and at higher rpms. You figure out what that means... 90 G60, APE Stage III, K&N element, ambient temp ~70F (20C) Engine warmed up, tests performed in 3rd, 4th or 5th gear, full throttle on a flat road. The readings did not change much depending on the gears, which is what you would expect, though 1st and 2nd go by too quickly to get a stable reading with the 1 sec refresh rate of the MFA. Roughly, this is what I got: RPM MFA Boost est psi boost (not "vacuum") 3000 ~230 ~11.6 4000 ~240 ~14.3 >4500 ~244 ~14.7 Tooling around, I'd be around 80-100, throttle off conditions I'd see about 49. The highest I ever saw was ~244 and that peaked out around 4500-5000 rpms. Perhaps that explains why going much beyond there does not seem to give much more power. I expected the boost to continue linearly because there is a linear relationship between the output of the G60 vs rpm and the amount of air the engine needs per rpm. So I wonder where the loss is coming from. I do not have the ISV installed as yet. I still need to call someone. -- o ___|___ [\\] | Jan Vandenbrande jan@ug.eds.com __0 /\0/ /-------\ _ | http://alicudi.usc.edu:80/~jan/ \<,_ O \\ (_________) .#/_\_. | "Aerodynamics are for people who (_)/ (_) // [_] [_] |_(_)_| | cannot build engines" - Enzo Ferrari From owner-corrado-l@teleport.com Thu Apr 25 23:44 PDT 1996 Received: from mailer by fshpp1 with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA01573; Thu, 25 Apr 1996 23:44:31 -0700 Return-Path: Received: from desiree.teleport.com by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #4) id <01I3Z69RO7BK001W1Y@UG.EDS.COM>; Thu, 25 Apr 1996 23:40:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA28859; Thu, 25 Apr 1996 23:40:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by desiree.teleport.com (bulk_mailer v1.3); Thu, 25 Apr 1996 23:40:20 -0700 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA28818 for corrado-l-outgoing; Thu, 25 Apr 1996 23:40:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from knights.cc.ucf.edu (knights.cc.ucf.edu [132.170.246.40]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA28666 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 1996 23:39:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Pegasus.cc.ucf.edu by knights.cc.ucf.edu with smtp RFC1413_id jrw60831 (Smail3.1.29.1 #53) id m0uCh8W-0006w2C; Fri, 26 Apr 96 02:36 EDT Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 02:37:17 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jonathan R. Watts" Subject: Re: Smoke Rear Lights for G60 Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com X-Sender: jrw60831@Pegasus To: Corrado-l Reply-To: "Jonathan R. Watts" Message-Id: X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Precedence: bulk Status: RO Subject: Smoke Rear Lights for G60 > I was wondering if anyone makes the following products for a 1991 G60. > > 2. Smoked Rear light covers for the back of the car. I have seen these. Don't take this as a flame, but I really hate light covers. They usually don't fit well and reduce the visibility drastically. The only car they look good on is the newer RX-7's, and that's because they come from the factory this way, so you can see the brakes and turn signals through the smoked plexi. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Boost levels > Just checked my boost today and in the mid-late 5k RPMs, flooring it, > it got to 205 and then I tried it while hitting the rev-limiter and it > got to 214. Just checked mine today and hit 216 at about 6k rpm. I'll flirt with the redline tomorrow in search of 228. I thought the G-chargers were rated at 16.5 psi max. Yet in stock form they only produce 11.? psi?? I may have to get a pulley after all (I can't believe I'm saying this. I'm usually so mild mannered and conservative!) >From C to shining C! (just washed it today, therefore it will rain tomorrow) Jon From owner-corrado-l@teleport.com Thu Apr 25 23:42 PDT 1996 Received: from mailer by fshpp1 with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA01540; Thu, 25 Apr 1996 23:42:15 -0700 Return-Path: Received: from desiree.teleport.com by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #4) id <01I3Z66WH8WG009JLS@UG.EDS.COM>; Thu, 25 Apr 1996 23:38:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA28239; Thu, 25 Apr 1996 23:38:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by desiree.teleport.com (bulk_mailer v1.3); Thu, 25 Apr 1996 23:38:07 -0700 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA28223 for corrado-l-outgoing; Thu, 25 Apr 1996 23:38:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [206.163.123.45] (ip-pdx13-45.teleport.com [206.163.123.45]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA28194; Thu, 25 Apr 1996 23:37:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 11:39:14 +0100 From: finn@teleport.com (bubblegum perfume) Subject: Re: MFA readings? Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com X-Sender: finn@mail.teleport.com To: Hamton , s643219@aix2.uottawa.ca Cc: corrado Reply-To: finn@teleport.com (bubblegum perfume) Message-Id: X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Precedence: bulk Status: RO At 14H21 25.4.96, Hamton wrote: >To get the boost reading do this: > >Switch the MFA to 2 position. >Hold the Button on the side of the MFA switch down and hold it there >Turn you ignition off and then on. >Let go of the switch >Press the button once. >It will show you the Intake vacuum. >Intake vacuum = psi >172 2.9 >192 5.8 >211 8.7 >228 11.6 >242 14.5 >255 17.4 > >I've tested this on my car in third gear and drove it up and into >redline. The most highest reading I get is 238 right before I let go of >the pedal. I have the HP Gen II kit with ISV bypass. Shouldn't I be >getting a 240+ reading. I guess it's that leak which is causing my >engine to hunt. > >Huey - '90 Red G60/HKS Super Power Flow > Grill Spoiler/Pilot 2020 Foglights > 16" Momo Arrows/Neuspeed P-Chip i just did the test and the numbers ranged from 153-165... hmmm is that depressing or what?? the car does not seem sluggish though.. maybe the mfa sensor is toast?? what does it deliver info about boost to?? is there a test in the bently?? if so, what page?? i'll do a manual check with the install of an aftermarket pressure gauge.. but..... what would be a checklist to go about correcting this or finding problem???? other then checking hoses?? any tips on checking hoses??? i'll remove body panel to get to intercooler... i dunno... _thanx, -coleman. 90 Black on Black G-60 80k. 17" TSW Hockenheim R/Pirelli P-700. Hor Tech. Springs. Autotech 25/28 hollow sways. Brospeed exaust. Tokiko HP's. Neuspeed P-Chip, P-Flow, Upper strut tie, Schroth Harness, 80mph rear wing. ISV Bypass. Momo knob. Razzo Pedals. PIAA Fogs. Kenwood, ADS,ADCOM. From owner-corrado-l@teleport.com Thu Apr 25 23:50 PDT 1996 Received: from mailer by fshpp1 with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA01627; Thu, 25 Apr 1996 23:50:52 -0700 Return-Path: Received: from desiree.teleport.com by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #4) id <01I3Z6HNFE8G00687K@UG.EDS.COM>; Thu, 25 Apr 1996 23:47:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA25346; Thu, 25 Apr 1996 11:11:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by desiree.teleport.com (bulk_mailer v1.3); Thu, 25 Apr 1996 11:11:05 -0700 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA08533 for corrado-l-outgoing; Thu, 25 Apr 1996 10:43:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.onramp.net (mailhost.onramp.net [199.1.11.3]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA08222 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 1996 10:42:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hredd.onramp.net (stemmons22.onramp.net [199.1.11.186]) by mailhost.onramp.net (8.7.3/8.6.5) with SMTP id MAA20277; Thu, 25 Apr 1996 12:42:25 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 12:49:36 -0500 From: Herschel Redd Subject: Boost levels Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com To: Corrado Club list Cc: acates@hooked.net Reply-To: Herschel Redd Message-Id: <317FBB30.7145@onramp.net> X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win95; I) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk Status: RO >From: acates@hooked.net (Alden Cates) >Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 18:34:09 -0700 >Subject: ISV By Pass surgery >Just checked my boost today and in the mid-late 5k RPMs, flooring it, >it >got to 205 and then I tried it while hitting the rev-limiter and it got >to >214. For those of you without the Bentley, that's ~7.6 psi and ~8.9 >psi >respectivly. I heard that at full boost, it should hit 228, or 11.6 >psi. >So now I guess I'll start checking for vacuume leaks. My car is a '90 >and >has ~62k miles on it and totally stock, and new air filter. >- -Alden in Ca, paying for out rageous reformulated gas prices Alden, before I bypassed the ISV, check ALL of the hose connections in the G60 plumbing. The difficult ones are at the intercooler. I removed the inner fender panel to get at the clamps on mine. This can make a significant difference. I also read on rec.autos.makers.vw.watercooled of a guy who found the outlet from his intercooler completely off....frightening idea. After doing that, recheck your boost. Two other things that can make a difference are your fuel....reformulated CA (BTW paid $1.80 for fullserve 91 octane yesterday) (for my other car guys....use 93 octane in the C).....and ambient temp. If it was hot (kinda unlikely this time of year in a lot of CA), then the air doesn't compress as well, the engine is more likely to knock....spark retard, ISV boost limits, etc. Anyway my C is completely stock (53K) and I tightened all the G60 hoses/tubes about a week ago. My peak was 223 on the MFA or about 11.5 psi. I hit redline all the time in my car, which seems to be about 66-6700 RPM. There are a lot of drivers who don't understand merging here in Dallas, TX, and some no merge lane entrance ramps....hence rapid acceleration required. Besides, isn't normal operating range between idle and redline?...I digress.... This brings up another question I have asked before. My ECU got replaced early on in my cars life...there was a tech service letter on cars tending to overcompensate for idle speed....anyway dealer was the one who suggested the change....since then the rev limiter has been up around 6700 RPM instead of the annoying 6200 it originally had. Does anyone else have this ECU? And if you are only getting to 6200, that could make for some of the difference in your boost level, but I wouldn't think it would be all.... Herschel From owner-corrado-l@teleport.com Thu Apr 25 20:19 PDT 1996 Received: from mailer by fshpp1 with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA24080; Thu, 25 Apr 1996 20:19:53 -0700 Return-Path: Received: from desiree.teleport.com by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #4) id <01I3YZ3XZL7K0074OS@UG.EDS.COM>; Thu, 25 Apr 1996 20:16:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA27641; Thu, 25 Apr 1996 20:14:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by desiree.teleport.com (bulk_mailer v1.3); Thu, 25 Apr 1996 20:14:56 -0700 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA27479 for corrado-l-outgoing; Thu, 25 Apr 1996 20:14:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rio.com (rio.com [206.96.130.10]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA27449 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 1996 20:14:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [206.96.130.155] (p55.t0.rio.com [206.96.130.155]) by rio.com (8.7/8.7) with SMTP id UAA21957 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 1996 20:10:25 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 20:10:25 -0700 (PDT) From: arne@rio.com (Arne Berglund) Subject: Intercooler connections and boost levels Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com To: corrado-l@teleport.com Reply-To: arne@rio.com (Arne Berglund) Message-Id: X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Precedence: bulk Status: RO >Alden, before I bypassed the ISV, check ALL of the hose connections in >the G60 plumbing. The difficult ones are at the intercooler. I removed >the inner fender panel to get at the clamps on mine. This can make a >significant difference. I also read on rec.autos.makers.vw.watercooled >of a guy who found the outlet from his intercooler completely >off....frightening idea. After doing that, recheck your boost. That person whose post you read was me. When I bought my car, it felt sluggish, not at all like I thought it should. I found the outlet from the intercooler disconnected and the clamp missing. This was apparently the result of a low class body shop doing some repair work on the nose of the car before I bought it. (My car's body and paint is not real great, but presentable. And hey, I bought it pretty cheap!) In retrospect, I'm astonished it ran as well as it did. More to the point, after finding and fixing that problem, I decided to check every line and hose and clamp in the car. Tightened a little here, replaced a little there and so on. My car's engine and drivetrain are completely stock, and the car has 71k miles on it. Yesterday I checked my boost. Normal (hard) acceleration = 206. Second gear redline = 214. Seems to match up pretty well with Alden's results. BTW, my car's rev limiter is still 6200. I have the original ECU, and my car is very early production (VIN #WVWDB45076K001103) If I ever get all the bugs worked out of it, I plan to treat it to a ISV re-route and a new chip. Arne Berglund 90 Corrado G60 (still stock except for 215/40ZR16 Proxes T-1's) 91 GLI 16v ******************************************************** arne@rio.com http://www.rio.com/~arne/ "Arne's Page: Mostly Matchboxes" ******************************************************** From owner-corrado-l@teleport.com Thu Apr 25 12:27 PDT 1996 Received: from mailer by fshpp1 with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA08155; Thu, 25 Apr 1996 12:27:15 -0700 Return-Path: Received: from desiree.teleport.com by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #4) id <01I3YILWXDGG0092KG@UG.EDS.COM>; Thu, 25 Apr 1996 12:23:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA05279; Thu, 25 Apr 1996 12:22:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by desiree.teleport.com (bulk_mailer v1.3); Thu, 25 Apr 1996 12:22:06 -0700 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA04960 for corrado-l-outgoing; Thu, 25 Apr 1996 12:21:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omega.uta.edu (omega.uta.edu [129.107.1.23]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA04852 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 1996 12:21:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from htt1743@localhost) by omega.uta.edu (8.7.3/8.6.9) id OAA02208; Thu, 25 Apr 1996 14:21:14 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 14:21:13 -0500 (CDT) From: Hamton Subject: Re: MFA readings? In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com To: s643219@aix2.uottawa.ca Cc: corrado Reply-To: Hamton Message-Id: X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Precedence: bulk Status: RO To get the boost reading do this: Switch the MFA to 2 position. Hold the Button on the side of the MFA switch down and hold it there Turn you ignition off and then on. Let go of the switch Press the button once. It will show you the Intake vacuum. Intake vacuum = psi 172 2.9 192 5.8 211 8.7 228 11.6 242 14.5 255 17.4 I've tested this on my car in third gear and drove it up and into redline. The most highest reading I get is 238 right before I let go of the pedal. I have the HP Gen II kit with ISV bypass. Shouldn't I be getting a 240+ reading. I guess it's that leak which is causing my engine to hunt. Huey - '90 Red G60/HKS Super Power Flow Grill Spoiler/Pilot 2020 Foglights 16" Momo Arrows/Neuspeed P-Chip From owner-corrado-l@teleport.com Fri Apr 26 05:42 PDT 1996 Received: from mailer by fshpp1 with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA01298; Fri, 26 Apr 1996 05:42:07 -0700 Return-Path: Received: from desiree.teleport.com by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #4) id <01I3ZIR1K6PC00916M@UG.EDS.COM>; Fri, 26 Apr 1996 05:38:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA10980; Fri, 26 Apr 1996 05:38:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by desiree.teleport.com (bulk_mailer v1.3); Fri, 26 Apr 1996 05:37:59 -0700 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id FAA10960 for corrado-l-outgoing; Fri, 26 Apr 1996 05:37:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aix2.uottawa.ca (aix2.uottawa.ca [137.122.6.18]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA10956 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 1996 05:37:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by aix2.uottawa.ca (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA26487; Fri, 26 Apr 1996 08:35:54 -0400 Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 08:35:54 -0400 (EDT) From: s643219 Subject: Vacuum pressure Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com To: CORRADO CLUB Cc: Adam Mcclelland Reply-To: s643219 Message-Id: X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Precedence: bulk Status: RO Neat trick, thanks for pointing it out to me guys! I ran my stock engine (KnN filter and Leistritz exhaust) up to 6000rpm in third, the pressure was 225, which equals about 11.6psi. Is this good for my stock engine with 50,000 miles? thanks, Adam From owner-corrado-l@teleport.com Wed Apr 24 18:35 PDT 1996 Received: from mailer by fshpp1 with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA13370; Wed, 24 Apr 1996 18:35:11 -0700 Return-Path: Received: from desiree.teleport.com by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #4) id <01I3XH5VQCJK0099P9@UG.EDS.COM>; Wed, 24 Apr 1996 18:31:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA19435; Wed, 24 Apr 1996 18:30:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by desiree.teleport.com (bulk_mailer v1.3); Wed, 24 Apr 1996 18:30:38 -0700 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA19343 for corrado-l-outgoing; Wed, 24 Apr 1996 18:30:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mom.hooked.net (root@mom.hooked.net [206.80.6.10]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA19248 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 1996 18:30:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [206.80.8.33] (chum-33.ppp.hooked.net [206.80.8.33]) by mom.hooked.net (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA20912 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 1996 18:30:17 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 18:34:09 -0700 From: acates@hooked.net (Alden Cates) Subject: ISV By Pass surgery Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com X-Sender: acates@mailhost.hooked.net To: corrado-l@teleport.com Reply-To: acates@hooked.net (Alden Cates) Message-Id: X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Precedence: bulk Status: RO Just checked my boost today and in the mid-late 5k RPMs, flooring it, it got to 205 and then I tried it while hitting the rev-limiter and it got to 214. For those of you without the Bentley, that's ~7.6 psi and ~8.9 psi respectivly. I heard that at full boost, it should hit 228, or 11.6 psi. So now I guess I'll start checking for vacuume leaks. My car is a '90 and has ~62k miles on it and totally stock, and new air filter. -Alden in Ca, paying for out rageous reformulated gas prices From owner-corrado-l@teleport.com Fri Apr 26 13:09 PDT 1996 Received: from mailer by fshpp1 with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA26355; Fri, 26 Apr 1996 13:09:19 -0700 Return-Path: Received: from desiree.teleport.com by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #4) id <01I3ZYDCUD2O009HDK@UG.EDS.COM>; Fri, 26 Apr 1996 13:05:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA26172; Fri, 26 Apr 1996 13:04:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by desiree.teleport.com (bulk_mailer v1.3); Fri, 26 Apr 1996 13:04:27 -0700 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA25835 for corrado-l-outgoing; Fri, 26 Apr 1996 13:04:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.orci.com (root@rocky.orci.com [204.144.173.1]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA25762 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 1996 13:03:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from richarj9.ios.com ([204.144.173.87]) by rocky.orci.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA05877; Fri, 26 Apr 1996 14:02:07 -0600 Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 13:57:26 -0600 From: "Rich J." Subject: Re: Boost from MFA Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com To: Kevin Brisson Cc: corrado-l@teleport.com Reply-To: "Rich J." Message-Id: <31812AA6.1C14@rocky.orci.com> Organization: IDT (Intl. Discount Telecommunication) http://www.idt.net X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01Gold (Win95; I) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk References: Status: RO Kevin Brisson wrote: > > I tried the second setting on MFA2 to see my boost but I get different > numbers like around 300-400 at idle up to a max of 1500. Others have > reported numbers up to the low 200's. Is this the right setting or is > something different on my car. It's a '92 G60. > > Kevin these are the numbers you see if you have a motometer instead of a VDO. 300 is 300mbar. 1000 mbar is what you would (should) see with the engine not running (atmospheric). 1500 is 1.5 bar and bentley says that is a pressure of about 7.2 psi or the equivalent of about 201 for VDO readings. -- Rich One thing has nothing to do with the other. '90 Alpine White G60: TSW Prizms, Modified airbox, 5 brake lights, 4 reverse lights, polished tailpipe, ISV bypass, trying to decide between AT and Neuspeed Stage II mailto:richarj9@rocky.orci.com From owner-corrado-l@teleport.com Fri Apr 26 15:27 PDT 1996 Received: from mailer by fshpp1 with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA29242; Fri, 26 Apr 1996 15:27:43 -0700 Return-Path: Received: from desiree.teleport.com by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #4) id <01I4036XJ3HS008H32@UG.EDS.COM>; Fri, 26 Apr 1996 15:24:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA11737; Fri, 26 Apr 1996 15:23:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by desiree.teleport.com (bulk_mailer v1.3); Fri, 26 Apr 1996 15:22:59 -0700 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA11593 for corrado-l-outgoing; Fri, 26 Apr 1996 15:22:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.orci.com (root@rocky.orci.com [204.144.173.1]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA11568 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 1996 15:22:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from richarj9.ios.com ([204.144.173.103]) by rocky.orci.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA12438; Fri, 26 Apr 1996 16:20:58 -0600 Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 16:16:32 -0600 From: "Rich J." Subject: Re: Boost from MFA Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com To: Kevin Brisson Cc: corrado-l@teleport.com Reply-To: "Rich J." Message-Id: <31814B40.11A7@rocky.orci.com> Organization: IDT (Intl. Discount Telecommunication) http://www.idt.net X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01Gold (Win95; I) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk References: Status: RO >Ok, I'll see if I get around 1000 with the engine off. How come I can't >get the high numbers that everyone else is getting ? Can someone give me >the formula or table for converting the numbers ? What is the maximum >boost I should be able to produce ? 1 bar = 14.7 psi I believe is correct, not sure about vacuum conversion- for less than 1 bar. As far as your pressures go, it depends. I also peak at 213, but I live in Denver, and this is only after i put the ISV bypass on. Used to be 190 peak. Temperature, leaks, altitude all make a difference. As far as maximum, I don't know. People with smaller pulleys and other stuff will be higher than those of us without. Also the redline makes a diff, along with the ISV, if you are still using it. I've heard 16-17 psi, even though I peak around 8 or 9 psi. A smaller pulley and living at sea level would help me more, along with a higher redline. -- Rich One thing has nothing to do with the other. '90 Alpine White G60: TSW Prizms, Modified airbox, 5 brake lights, 4 reverse lights, polished tailpipe, waiting for ISV kit, trying to decide between AT and Neuspeed Stage II mailto:richarj9@rocky.orci.com From owner-corrado-l@teleport.com Fri Apr 26 18:06 PDT 1996 Received: from mailer by fshpp1 with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA03062; Fri, 26 Apr 1996 18:06:49 -0700 Return-Path: Received: from desiree.teleport.com by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #4) id <01I408RDEPR4009AHJ@UG.EDS.COM>; Fri, 26 Apr 1996 18:03:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA00294; Fri, 26 Apr 1996 18:02:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by desiree.teleport.com (bulk_mailer v1.3); Fri, 26 Apr 1996 18:02:41 -0700 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA00243 for corrado-l-outgoing; Fri, 26 Apr 1996 18:02:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from knights.cc.ucf.edu ([132.170.246.40]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA00223 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 1996 18:02:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Pegasus.cc.ucf.edu by knights.cc.ucf.edu with smtp RFC1413_id shm52527 (Smail3.1.29.1 #53) id m0uCyLt-0006wkC; Fri, 26 Apr 96 20:59 EDT Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 21:00:15 -0400 (EDT) From: "Mr. Shannon Moore" Subject: MFA boost readings/ oil filter relocation Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com X-Sender: shm52527@Pegasus To: corrado digest Reply-To: "Mr. Shannon Moore" Message-Id: X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Precedence: bulk Status: RO Did a check of my boost reading according to MFA. Best I got was 225 in third gear @ redline. This confuses me because, as Rodney points out, I thought the stock C only had 8 lbs. of boost. My readings would indicate around 11 lbs of boost. I did buy the car used, from a VW dealer, so it's entirely possible that the previous owner installed a smaller pulley. I was looking through the JC Whitney catalog and they advertise an oil filter relocation kit for $36.49(US). The hoses are not braided with good connectors but that's easy to fix/replace. The problem is the kit requires switching to a Purolator Per-1A filter. My question, and maybe Turbotim can answer this one, is does Mann or Mecca make an equivalent filter or is the Purolator filter WORTHY of living in my C? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _/_/_/ _/_/ _/_/_/ Mr. Shannon Moore _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ http://pegasus.cc.ucf.edu/~shm52527 _/ _/ _/_/ _/ _/ email:shm52527@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu _/ _/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ University of Central Florida _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ 1990 Black Corrado Toyo Proxes T1 Mintex pads 16" OZ Monte Carlos Crossdrilled& slotted rotors ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-corrado-l@teleport.com Sun Apr 28 00:54 PDT 1996 Received: from mailer by fshpp1 with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA12888; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 00:54:41 -0700 Return-Path: Received: from desiree.teleport.com by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #4) id <01I421AEDUK0008EN4@UG.EDS.COM>; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 00:50:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA09552; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 00:50:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by desiree.teleport.com (bulk_mailer v1.3); Sun, 28 Apr 1996 00:50:28 -0700 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA09522 for corrado-l-outgoing; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 00:50:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from germany.it.earthlink.net (germany-c.it.earthlink.net [206.85.92.123]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA09518 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 00:50:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [153.37.99.54] (pool054.Max2.San-Francisco.CA.DYNIP.ALTER.NET [153.37.99.54]) by germany.it.earthlink.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA09415 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 00:50:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 00:50:20 -0700 (PDT) From: radog60@earthlink.net Subject: MFA Readings Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com To: corrado-l@teleport.com Reply-To: radog60@earthlink.net Message-Id: X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Precedence: bulk Status: RO I found the others' posts useful for comparison, so here is what I got out of mine. 90 G60 w/ 93K miles Mods: AT stage II (Chip and Pulley) Neuspeed Gen II kit K&N filter in the box w/no snorkel Test condition: 62F (amb. temp) 228F (oil temp) 11pm-12am Pedal is to the metal: Gear 2nd 3rd 4th RMP wound to 5000 234 239 241 5750 240 244 245 Right before 6000 243 249 254* 254 = 17psi+ I will try 5th gear on the trip to Buttonwillow (ND Corrado Gathering II) on June 1st. >Tooling around, I'd be around 80-100, throttle off conditions >I'd see about 49. Mine agrees with this > >The highest I ever saw was ~244 and that peaked out around >4500-5000 rpms. Perhaps that explains why going much beyond there >does not seem to give much more power. I expected the boost >to continue linearly because there is a linear relationship >between the output of the G60 vs rpm and the amount of air >the engine needs per rpm. Contrary to Jan's issue of boost stop climbing at 4500-5000 RPM, mine continues to climb to redline. This looks like I don't have to check my intercooler plumbing connections (yet). -Qui '90 Red G60 '85 Yellow Golf From owner-corrado-l@teleport.com Fri May 10 01:59 PDT 1996 Received: from mailer by fshpp1 with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA23962; Fri, 10 May 1996 01:59:21 -0700 Return-Path: Received: from desiree.teleport.com by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #4) id <01I4IV1HWY3K00DAUW@UG.EDS.COM>; Fri, 10 May 1996 01:55:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA14661; Thu, 9 May 1996 16:42:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by desiree.teleport.com (bulk_mailer v1.3); Thu, 9 May 1996 16:42:26 -0700 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA13481 for corrado-l-outgoing; Thu, 9 May 1996 14:04:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocky.orci.com (root@rocky.orci.com [204.144.173.1]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA13073 for ; Thu, 9 May 1996 14:03:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from richarj9.ios.com (ppp-2-109.orci.com [204.144.173.109]) by rocky.orci.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA29132; Thu, 9 May 1996 15:03:33 -0600 Date: Thu, 09 May 1996 14:57:08 -0600 From: "Rich J." Subject: Re: 1991 G60 MFA Help Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com To: Eric Kaplan Cc: corrado Reply-To: "Rich J." Message-Id: <31925C24.2404@rocky.orci.com> Organization: IDT: http://www.idt.net X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b3Gold (Win95; I) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk References: Status: RO Eric Kaplan wrote: > > I did the Boost test tongiht on my stock 1991 G60. The highest value I > saw was 1420. I was wondering if someone with a Bentley manual could > give me a conversion for this figure. > > Thank You, > > Eric. OK, the book says 1400 is 5.8, and 1600 is 8.7. this is for up to august 1990. the chart for 91-92 stops at 1100 for some reason. but on that chart, 1100 is 1.5 psi, so looks like the same thing. since you have the motometer, it is easier for you to figure out. 1000 is atmospheric pressure at sea level (not sure where you live) or 0 psi. every 100 over that is 1.47 psi. so with that equation, 1420 would be 6.174 psi. if you think it's low, are you at a high altitude? do you have any leaks? look at what it says with engine NOT running. difference between 1420 and reading with engine off is actual output pressure. if you are at a high altitude like me, you are overcoming a vacuum before you even start building pressure. -- Rich One thing has nothing to do with the other. '90 Alpine White G60: TSW Prizms, Modified airbox, 5 brake lights, 4 reverse lights, polished tailpipe, ISV bypass, trying to decide between AT and Neuspeed Stage II mailto:richarj9@rocky.orci.com