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Brent Hartinger: Welcome all. I’m thrilled you’ve decided to join us for tonight’s informal chat (that means YOU ask the questions, not me). The topic is a very timely one: YA COMES OUT: QUEER THEMES IN TEEN LIT. I am your host, Brent Hartinger, author of GEOGRAPHY CLUB and its just-released sequel, THE ORDER OF THE POISON OAK. Brent Hartinger: Our rules are simple. Keep is friendly, keep it clean (this is a child-friendly chat room). Let me introduce the group, then I’ll open it up for questions and comments. Somehow I don’t think we’ll lack for insightful commentary on THIS topic… Brent Hartinger: I’m delighted to have such a great group of guests. First, we have Julie Anne Peters, the author of KEEPING YOU A SECRET, one of my favorite lesbian-themed books. Julie scored big this year with LUNA, which was nominated for the National Book Award! Sometimes nice gals DO finish first (except that, alas, she didn’t win!). Her next book, also lesbian themed (and apparently quite spicy!) is FAR FROM XANADU. Brent Hartinger: Next we have Ellen Wittlinger, the author of HARD LOVE, which was deservedly a Printz Honor book in 2000; I have yet to meet ANYONE who doesn’t think that HARD LOVE is an contemporary YA “classic.” I especially like that while one of the characters is an open and proud lesbian, the book is not “about” being a lesbian. Similarly, Ellen’s other books, like RAZZLE and this year’s HEART OF MY SLEEVE, often include gay supporting characters as if they are a part of life. Well, guess what? They are! As an author, I meet lots of authors, and one of my favorite things is when I like others author as much as I like their books, and I can certainly say that about Ellen. Brent Hartinger: Alex Sanchez, also joining us, is perhaps single-handedly responsible for this current wave of gay teen lit. His book, RAINBOW BOYS, published in 2001, proved that this is a BIG market for these type of books. He followed that up with another smash hit, RAINBOW HIGH, and another trend-setting book, SO HARD TO SAY, one of the first middle grade books (if not THE first) to delve into queer themes. Alex is one of those writers who is getting better with every book; SO HARD TO SAY is my favorite of his so far. Brent Hartinger: Finally, we have Chris Tebbetts, who I met through a yahoo group. Chris, along with a co-author whose name I forget (!!!), is the author of a new book M OR F?, out this fall. It’s light and breezy and fun and wonderful, just like I like my books. And I’m especially glad that one of the two main characters is gay, because I think I think we need all the light and breezy queer books we can get! It’s a wonderful read, and I predict big things for Chris and his forgotten co-author AlexSanchez: Shucks, thanks. :-) Brent Hartinger: First, shall we have everyone introduce themselves, so we know which handle is who? Chris Tebbetts: (Lisa Papademetriou) ellwitt: Intro: ellwitt is Ellen Wittlinger JulieP: Oh, are we doing introductions? This is where I lose
dates. I'm JulieP (Julie Anne Peters) Brent Hartinger: Panelists? And anyone else care to chime
in? If things get too crazy, I may have to call on you, but for
the time being, feel free to speak up JulieP: Times changed. It's like being gay in high school. One person comes out and suddenly everyone's gay. Brent Hartinger: Ellen, was HARD LOVE a hard sell to get published? ellwitt: I had an agent for Hard Love and she gave it right to David Gale, so no, it wasn't hard. ellwitt: But I wonder if it would have been snatched up quickly otherwise... Chris Tebbetts: Five years ago we (here in VT) were fighting for civil unions; and now they are "so yesterday" Brent Hartinger: David has really been a moving force for queer teen lit, hasn't he? He wanted to publish a book of mine in 1996 but it didn't work out AlexSanchez: Here's my take: S&S loved RAINBOW BOYS, but they were a little worried the LGBT audience might be too small. They hadn't counted on all those straight teen girl readers out there who want to read about LGBT issues. In retrospect, it seems so obvious... Suzi: Thanks, straight girls! Brent Hartinger: That's interesting, Alex. What percentage of your readers are straight, do you think? AlexSanchez: My biggest demographic, judging from emails, are not queer readers, but straight girls. Brent Hartinger: Me too. ellwitt: Me too, but then, that's probably the biggest READING demographic for teens Brent Hartinger: Chris, was M OR F? a hard sell with your publisher? RMH: I think girls are more curious about all kinds of relationships Chris Tebbetts: No; actually, it originated at Penguin. Suzi: And girls/women read more. E Lockhart: To chime in on what Alex just said, my editor at Random said they judged the primary market for Boy Meets Boy to have been girls. Brent Hartinger: Interesting! So we're officially "hot"! Chris Tebbetts: They're definitely selling it to the straight girl market BethSaxton: Girls and women are the primary readers and writers of slash fanfiction (m/m or f/f) as well Brent Hartinger: Interesting, Elise AlexSanchez: And a lot of self-identified bi girls. Girls are indeed the biggest READING demographic and more comfortable in general than boys reading about LGBT issues - what do you all think? Brent Hartinger: What about you, Julie? Do straight girls get into lesbian stories? Suzi: This is the controversy about, say, the cover of BOY MEETS BOY--the "lovehearts"--will boys ever read it? (People ask--or claim boys won't.) JulieP: Straight girls are a tougher audience sell for lesbian fiction, methinks Brent Hartinger: Or you, Ellen? Chris Tebbetts: I've heard young gay men say they wouldn't mind carrying around something that looks like Geography Club, but wouldn't be seen with Boy Meets Boy, for instance. Brent Hartinger: Oh, God, I have heard so much about the cover to THE ORDER OF THE POISON OAK, which is much more openly "gay" JulieP: But they do seem to respond to LUNA, which is about a transgender girl Brent Hartinger: Hey, folks, the covers are removable! :-) Suzi: But did you have any control over the cover, Brent? And Julie--your narrator is a straight girl...maybe that's why? ellwitt: I get letters from both sexes, and most of them are straight kids. Surprisingly, they don't necessarily relate to the character of the same sexuality! persei: I think there is some ambiguity to poison oak cover unless you look closer Chris Tebbetts: I'm not at all surprised by that, Julie. Brent Hartinger: Why do you think they respond to LUNA? Ahh, yes, Suzi. Brent Hartinger: I had no control over the cover. I actually wanted it to seem less gloom and doom JulieP: My sense is the girls are more interested in Liam/Luna -- the whole gender bending/blending RMH: btw how did Luna get away with skipping school all the time? Brent Hartinger: But they wanted to go with the angst thing, and I do think it works in the end Brent Hartinger: Ellen, what percentage of your HARD LOVE readership is lesbian, do you estimate? Significant or not? Suzi: I know I'd heard from Ellen before that cover art isn't within the author's, er, purview. (sp?) ellwitt: I really don't know how to judge. Suzi, what would you guess? I do get some emails from lesbians, but not more than from straight kids. Brent Hartinger: How DO you spell "purview"? lol persei: i'm curious about the history of LGBT lit and the idea that breezier is finally getting published. Do you think its easier now that Boy Meets Boy has had success? RMH: since the books are mostly about relationships and not about the actual sex acts, they don't feel threatening to readers, especially girls who are sympathetic to anyone falling in love Brent Hartinger: Do we have any questions from the floor? Suzi: Oh geez...er...well, Ellen, this reader is 100% lesbian. (And it's been popular among folkie lesbians, so.) JulieP: RMH -- Liam was way ahead in school -- no one noticed, or cared Brent Hartinger: I know that READERS are clamoring for "breezy" ellwitt: Yeah, folkie lesbians! Is that your doing? Brent Hartinger: So I suspect publishers must be aware of that Suzi: I read Gravel Queen a couple of nights ago and was pleased about its breeziness (like Empress of the World) Ed: Brent, have you seen my daughter's (Penni Spicer) VOYA review of your book? AlexSanchez: I agree, I think with the RAINBOW books, a lot of the female interest is in the romance - that the romance is between boys is a bonus Brent Hartinger: Hmmm, I think so. It was positive, right? ;-) Suzi: But I also like stories like Keeping You a Secret because it seems more true to the challenges *I* grew up with--and hear from some YA friends. RMH: or incidental Brent Hartinger: Yes, Alex, that's an interesting point about "romance." I was afraid of how the romance in GEOGRAPHY CLUB would be taken ellwitt: There's obviously room for all sorts of books featuring gay characters. Brent Hartinger: But the fact is, if they're reading a "gay" book, they want "gay" romance Brent Hartinger: anyone offended won't be reading the book in the first place! JulieP: KYAS was a joy to write. Maybe because it was the most familiar book I've done. My editor, Megan Tingley, was the one who suggested I write a YA lesbian love story. I thought she had a death wish for me. tengrrl: might they just want romance? Suzi: Brent. I thought a lot about how you sort of didn't talk about sex. But in a nonsnarky way...what's the authors' take on same-sex sex in YA lit? Brent Hartinger: Julie, I had to be talked into writing "gay" too, by my agent E Lockhart: I'm curious how those of you with less Out covers & titles managed to find your audience. Librarians and booksellers will know because they've read the reviews, but did you or your publicity teams do anything in particular to help the books actually reach LGBT teens? or adult crossover? Brent Hartinger: I'd had such a miserable experience with my first gay teen book ellwitt: No. Hard Love was a Printz honor and that gave it publicity. But I wonder how well it would have done otherwise. Brent Hartinger: There is gay and there is GAY. I think my cover is totally gay, just not GAY. Like Alex's covers. Any gay person would "know" somehow that they're gay. ellwitt: It was well-reviewed, but I don't know that it would have found its audience. Brent Hartinger: So Ellen, it was the Printz award that really make it take off? AlexSanchez: for the RAINBOW books, having RAINBOW in the title helped draw LGBT readers and the cute boys on the cover drew the straight girls RMH: do you have a lot of input on the cover designs ellwitt: Yes, I think so. That's my feeling anyway. JulieP: I credit enlightened librarians, teachers, and booksellers for bringing these books to young audiences. I rarely get the opportunity to thank them for serving lgbtq youth. So thank you. If you saw the letters from young readers who feel absolutely that these books saved their lives, you'd know (librarians/teachers/booksellers) what important work you do. Brent Hartinger: RMH, authors get one cover "veto" in their whole careers (!!). So we use it sparingly. (I used mine last year. Now HarperCollins expects me to shut up for th rest of my career!) Suzi: And the Lambda for Hard Love really got a queer audience, Ellen (at least I think so). Suzi: Brent, you have to switch publishers so you can earn another one. ellwitt: Absolutely, Suzi. I imagine that was the main way it found that audience. Brent Hartinger: lol, Suzi Chris Tebbetts: It's been interesting with M or F?, which I think is a misleading title to the savvy person, and maybe not to this book's intended audience (i.e., it may not seem like a trans-themed title to the average straight girl) -- I lost the argument over title. Tori: I am a school librarian, I have most of your books JulieP: My covers are gorgeous. Little, Brown gets it. Brent Hartinger: I think Alex's book really prepped the audience for my book, because there was huge interest right away Suzi: What was the title you wanted, Chris? Tori: Thank you soooooooooooooo much for writing for my students Brent Hartinger: Booksellers were very eager for another gay teen title, because Alex's book had done so well Chris Tebbetts: Unfortunatley, I coudln't come up with a great one -- best I had in mind was Boys and Girl Brent Hartinger: But my book's strength was trade, not library or school sales AlexSanchez: I agree with Julie. Cheers for the librarians, teachers, and booksellers - many who are LGBT, many more who are straight but believe in a diversity of voices - and all those who know the LGBT kids, because so often we hide in books, libraries, and bookstores (safe places, thanks to them) JulieP: Tori -- my gratitude to you is boundless. You're my hero(ine). E Lockhart: covers: I have a book next year that is a straight girl book with pretty high interest for gay boys and it has a pink cover. But they capitulated to my desire to reach some boys by making it a very jagged pink and red, kind of punk rock. We'll see if it works Tori: awww shucks <blush> doing what i love Brent Hartinger: One thing that Julie touched on earlier is the mail that I know all of us get (and Chris WILL get) from grateful queer youth. JulieP: Tori -- we love you. You put yourself out there as much as we do by defending our books. Chris Tebbetts: It's certainly amazing the number of places young queer people can "see" themselves today as compared to my adolescence... and yet, still so far to go. Brent Hartinger: It's really quite unbelievable, and humbling. Suzi: And adults, Brent. Consider this a thank-you card to all of you. Brent Hartinger: Thanks, Suzi. Tori: I also put your books face out in the stores when I see them "hidden" :) Brent Hartinger: Do any of our panelists have "fan email" stories they'd like to share? JulieP: Mail -- do I get mail. Thousands of letters. It wasn't
until the letters started pouring in that I realized there was
such a hunger and yearning for this literature. ellwitt: The most thrilling letter I ever got was from a girl who said she had once been "afraid of homosexuals"... ellwitt: but since she'd "met Marisol" she understood that they were just regular people. Brent Hartinger: I was stopped on the street recently by a mother who had read GEOGRAPHY CLUB with her gay son. Suzi: That's super, Ellen. AlexSanchez: I've only gotten a couple from parents, but many from kids telling me they gave my books to their parents to read so they could understand them... ellwitt: That's when I realized I wasn't just writing that book for gay kids... Brent Hartinger: She said they had bonded unlike ever before, and I was so moved. Brent Hartinger: Yes, Alex, I get that too! Isn't that flattering! JulieP: In all my mail, I've received one *positive* letter from a mother of a young lesbian. I've received a few from mothers of trans kids, one of whom told me her daughter transitioned in third grade. Ed: It's taking me some time to get used to how fast this moves! Yes, Brent, my daughter's review was a 5 quality and a 3 popularity. Suzi: wow--third grade. Suzi: Lucky kid. Brent Hartinger: Ed, she liked the romance, as I recall DorianCirrone: I'm curious, in multicultural fiction there's a strong feeling that the author should be a member of that culture, what is the feeling when it comes to LGBT fiction? Brent Hartinger: That is an EXCELLENT question, Dorian... Brent Hartinger: Anyone? Suzi: Julie, I liked the way you conveyed the feelings of the trans kid. I have facilitated groups about gender and met many trans kids and adults--and I thought LUNA captured what they felt. RMH: 3rd grade? Brent Hartinger: (Personally, I think any writer should be able to write any character. But you have to do your research, of course.) Suzi: I'm looking forward to M or F? JulieP: Suzi, I know. She said the elementary school had come so far in understanding the phenom. One of my goals with LUNA was to bring language to the discussion. ellwitt: Yes, big question for me. I''m not gay and I'm always a little afraid someone will be upset with my writing gay characters. Ed: Brent, yes! And my daughter is a straight kid so I think that this story will (eventually) translate to anyone, even here in my town where kids have put REALM OF POSSIBILITY back because "the homosexuality scares me." We're working on this! Brent Hartinger: And I will say, a lot of my readers seem to also be responding to me as a gay man (who they, of course, think is actually Russel). Suzi: Perhaps I'm biased, but Ellen has always done a great job with that. Suzi: (No, we're not related.) Chris Tebbetts: I'mnot a big believer in the NECESSITY to be of the population to write about it. I want ot be able to (and do) write straight characters. AlexSanchez: I agree with Brent - and I believe most people are somewhere between LGBT and straight - for many of us, those are labels by which we identify ourselves, but our identities are much more fluid and complex than that... ellwitt: Thanks, Suzi! I do appreciate it. It makes me work all the more to get the characters RIGHT. Brent Hartinger: Ellen is case-in-point. To me, she READS
like a lesbian. The author's orientation is irrelevent. persei: brent - earlier you mentioned a bad experience w/ gay teen lit - was that as a reader? Brent Hartinger: But I do get annoyed when I read stereotypical portrayals, or portrayals that seem "off," only to learn the author is not gay Suzi: Alex, that is so true. But I am not sure teenagers can afford that idea of fluidity sometimes (in relationships with others, in creating identities, etc.) JulieP: I confess I have a stubborn bias for authenticity in lgbtq voices Brent Hartinger: persei, I wrote a gay teen novel in 1992 that won an award in 1996 (David Gale was the judge) Suzi: I mean to say--teens come out hard and with certainty. Fluidity might come in later. Brent Hartinger: And then it was rejected by about 50 publishers, many of whom liked it but were afarid of it Chris Tebbetts: At the same time, a lot of teens come out gray before going black or white, so to speak. AlexSanchez: I believe teens today are struggling with fluidity Suzi: Okay, good point. I remember saying "I'm only in love with Person X, I'm not a lesbian or anything." Brent Hartinger: Julie (not to get too personal), what is your personal relationship with the tran issue? Chris Tebbetts: I think a big movement is away from labels, and toward an "I just am" mentality among teens, queer and otherwise. Suzi: I read Andrew Matthews' THE FLIP SIDE last night, and it had that "I just am" thing for most of the book. Suzi: (Taken over by straightbots at the end, though.) ellwitt: I'm doing a transgender novel now and the kids I'm talking to about the topic all identified as gay in high school. Brent Hartinger: Yes, Chris, I think you're right. But adults just so don't get the fluidity thing Ed: Julie, I'm late on this thread but I think LUNA is a more difficult sale than XANADU (and I loved both, Reviewed Luna for Michigan Reading Journal) because we have even less familiarity with misgendered folks than lesbian or gay folks. Chris Tebbetts: Yes - it's more threatening to them than the queer thing JulieP: Brent, I put off doing LUNA for so long because I didn't feel I could honestly represent the trans experience. It wasn't until the sister, Regan, arrived that I had a vehicle for telling Luna's story. I could never do it in her voice. Suzi: Ellen, I know a few young trans kids from the Midwest--let me know if you want to get in touch with them. Brent Hartinger: It's even more confusing than the bi thing, which is hard enough to explain! ellwitt: Thanks, Suzi. I very well might. JulieP: In Luna's voice, I mean. It had to come from the POV of an observer -- an invested observer Suzi: Julie, I thought in Luna you also did a great job expressing the fear and pain that comes from being the receiver (the only one) of someone else's secret. Brent Hartinger: Regan's perspective, in all its nasty glory, is part of what I adored about that novel. Chris Tebbetts: It's interesting -- gay and lesbian YA seems to be moving to a new phase, and along with that, there's the explanatory fiction of other identities -- like Luna, which I believe represents a cusp that we're on in the macro. Suzi: God, I better get my YA novel underway before the bubble bursts. Brent Hartinger: Chris, elaborate. What's the new phase? (I think I fervently agree.) Rochelle: I think it will helpLuna to be read by a wide audience, too. Ed: When I was a teen many moons ago. I knew a transgendered person. When I told people that Regan's voice matched my experience, I was amazed by some people who told me I was wrong! WRONG? My personal experience? ellwitt: Interesting, Julie, about using the voice of an invested observer... I felt that way with Hard Love, which is why it's from the male's POV. Not that I'm a male either!... Brent Hartinger: Ed, that's hilarious. ellwitt: But with the trans novel I'm going to jump in and do it first person. Eek. Chris Tebbetts: Moving from Gay 101 to 201 and beyond, and with it, bringing Trans (and others of the GLBTQIAA rainbow) into the light for the first time. JulieP: The challenge of LUNA was having three main characters vying for equal attention Brent Hartinger: My prediction is that there will be less books "about" the gay experience Brent Hartinger: and more books where the characters happen to be gay Suzi: Poor Liam in that equation. BethSaxton: I'm sorry, the IAA part is new to me Chris, can you expand that Brent Hartinger: Incidentally gay characters, where the gayness informs the theme, of course, but that's all ellwitt: I agree, Brent. All to the good. Debbie J.: Oh, good, Beth. I figured I was the only one who didn't know that part. Suzi: I think you're right, Brent, but kids in various places will still need those coming out novels. Chris Tebbetts: Intersex, Ally......and actually, it should be two Q's, not two A's --- Queer and Questioning E Lockhart: Brent, like Kristin Kemp's The Dating Diaries, for example ellwitt: But with the trans novel I'm going to jump iin and do it first person. Eek. Chris Tebbetts: Moving from Gay 101 to 201 and beyond, and with it, bringing Trans (and others of the GLBTQIAA rainbow) into the light for the first time. JulieP: The challenge of LUNA was having three main characters vying for equal attention Brent Hartinger: My prediction is that there will be less books "about" the gay experience Brent Hartinger: and more books where the characters happen to be gay Scovil: That would be swell, Brent. But I don't think we're there yet. BethSaxton: ah, thanks JulieP: I'd like to see lgbtq lit advance in three directions: 1) at the microscopic level, where our relationships with each other play out. We're interesting and unique in our forced gender roles. Brent Hartinger: Chris, you could have started a whole new category right here tonight! Chris Tebbetts: My editor very much wants M or F? to be a book where the character "happens to be gay" Brent Hartinger: What about middle grade? Alex, what has been the response to that so far? Is there another market? JulieP: 2) during coming out, which is where young people are developmentally and socially. I hope there's always room for coming out stories -- which are our first love stories. AlexSanchez: Gaging from emails, for many teens, the "gay" experience is changing, but for many, many, they are still isolated, struggling, harrassed... I try to balance the two... Scovil: As a teacher, I know horrible language is still permitted in school. JulieP: 3) viewing our lives in larger perspective; how we interact with the world, see ourselves in relationship to it. Our sameness as opposed to our difference. Suzi: I liked the range of parental responses in Rainbow Boys, Alex (waiting for the other books on hold at the library) Brent Hartinger: Yes, Julie, I hope there are more love stories too. Brent Hartinger: But I do think that there is now less pressure on us authors to tell the WHOLE GAY experience Suzi: Good laying out of the issues, Julie. But "forced gender roles"? More detail? Brent Hartinger: I think the stories are getting more personal, intimate, in the best possible way. Rochelle: There will always need be coming out stories...until we live in the world of Boy Meets Boy when it is okay to be gay when you're in Kindergarten. Brent Hartinger: Scovil, there is SUCH a difference in the different schools. I can't believe the extremes! AlexSanchez: Middle grade... I think there is a definite NEED for books that address gay themes and homophobia but many educators who are unsure and nervous of addressing the issues openly and frankly... that's my perception... it's going to take time, I think Suzi: Scovil, I work in a community college, and my coworker in the writing/reading/study skills lab called something "a pansy color" yesterday. Man. Ed: Rochelle, I want to meet the teacher who would write that on a report card! E Lockhart: I am wondering how you all have and do think about the problem of representing homophobic language in YA fiction. Obviously not neccessary in certain types of books, but probably something that comes up in others. Brent Hartinger: Alex, I recently mentioned your new book at a conference, and apparently when I said "gay middle grade," people gasped JulieP: Girls w/girls and guys w/guys are dramas where gender is superimposed -- expectations and needs. There is rich story material to be mined. Suzi: Like Chris Crutcher's work, E? Tori: I have some books that could be very controversial in my Middle School library Brent Hartinger: They didn't understand that it was AGE-APPROPRIATE middle grade. They just heard "gay sex." AlexSanchez: Exactly Suzi: Gotcha, Julie. Scovil: Oh, yeah. I once witnessed a supposedly liberal colleague mimic the mincing walk of a student...in front of other teachers...and they all laughed. Tori: The books I have seen that would be "safer" in a middle school, usually go out of print really fast Suzi: Brent, when people hear "gay" tey often hear "sex." Chris Tebbetts: Everyone needs to gasp at first, so they won't
the next time (or the next, maybe) the world has to get comfortable
with it, the same way queer people have to get comfortable with
themselves. persei: maybe I'm missing it but it seems to me there is a huge need for middle grade books ellwitt: Are any of you regularly invited to speak at middle schools? When I am they often don't want me to use Hard Love in my talk. Brent Hartinger: Elise, I struggle with language BethSaxton: It's an ongoing battle reminding my patrons not to use homophobic language Tori: No Big Deal is a book we tried to put on the 6th - 8th grade Minnesota choice award list, but it was already out of print Chris Tebbetts: Yes, it's homoSEXXXual to many people's minds Brent Hartinger: I don't want to write lots of negative stuff, so I assume my readers woudln't want to read it AlexSanchez: Also with middle grade, aren't most or many books selected at school-sponsored book fairs, which don't carry anything controversial? Brent Hartinger: But you try to believe honest and realistic Suzi: Beth, you must be a librarian. chris, I often wonder what those people really spend their time thinking about. Brent Hartinger: Ellen, that is FASCINATING! BethSaxton: yes, Cleveland Public Library Tori: Alex: HUH? Brent Hartinger: The only way I get in public schools is by talking about THE LAST CHANCE TEXACO, my non-gay book Tori: If any of you would like to speak at my school.......come on up! ellwitt: I'm not surprised, Brent. They always ask me to talk about Gracie's Girl, which is really for 5th graders. Brent Hartinger: Librarians always ask if I'm going to bring up the "gay" thing, worriedly. AlexSanchez: Tori, where's your school? Brent Hartinger: And I never do, but then the TEENS bring it up Tori: St. Paul Minnesota Brent Hartinger: They ALWAYS want to hear about it. E Lockhart: I am ashamed to have not read Chris Crutcher, but as Scovil said earlier, horrible phobic language is out there and it's going to come up writing about LGBT kids in high school. (PS Brent: Emily, not Elise :) ) ellwitt: That's right. The kids have read Hard Love and they ask questions. YES! Ed: Ellen I hope you use it anyway! I love this book and I think it is good for middle school kids to be exposed to the idea that one can be lesbian AND in good mental health. But that's easy for me to say since I don't depend on speaking engagements for my money! JulieP: I applaud librarians and teachers who realize these books need to be available to younger readers, at the middle school level. It's not the kids who have a problem talking about these issues. Scovil: Hey, Tori, I live in Eau Claire and I'd love to come. Tori: really??? Brent Hartinger: Yes, Julie, as bad as kids can be, they're WAY ahead of most adults AlexSanchez: Tori, Oh fudge, I was just there. :-( I might go back in October for the RAINBOWROAD tour. Please email me through my website, AlexSanchez.com Tori: fantastic JulieP: I've been asked not to talk about my "controversial" books at schools, and I've said no. I've come too far to go backwards. It's been too long a journey. Brent Hartinger: Teachers and administrators are terrified of controversy ellwitt: I talk about whatever books kids ask about, but I hate to put the teacher or librarian on the spot if it's a conservative school. People lose jobs over this kind of stuff. Suzi: Julie, good point. What's the point of WRITING the books and getting them published if you are asked to hide them? persei: as a librarian i get why its difficult at the middle school, but having worked with gay teens at MS I see how desperate they are for stories they see themselves in Scovil: Oh, yeah. I actually scheduled a school visit this morning. I put on quite a show. Here's my email: katemcky@ Suzi: Ellen, on the other hand, also a good point. Brent Hartinger: Yes, but once you're IN the school, the kids will make sure the topic gets discussed. Scovil: That would be swell, Brent. But I don't think we're there yet. tengrrl: can you imagine a world where say a black author was invited to a school but only to talk about books with white characters? the world is so screwed up ellwitt: Yes, kids are more up on the "controversial" books than the teachers. persei: Julie - yea for you. if someone is coming to talk I want them to talk about what they're passionate about and all there works Scovil: Well put, Tengrrl JulieP: Brent, it's the first question kids ask: Have you ever been discriminated against for being lesbian? Tori: no kidding. If kids in my school used the "n" word half as much as they use the "g" word....they'd all be suspended! Brent Hartinger: Isn't that great? Kids always want to know about my partner, Michael. How did we meet? How long together? Suzi: That's sort of good to know, Ellen. I THINK that means the librarians and booksellers are up on them too. Suzi: (But the teachers should be, if only they had the time!) Brent Hartinger: Do we have more questions from anyone? Feel free to speak up? Tori: i find most of the English teachers to be stuck in the literature they know and are used to Cathy: Tori, what did you mean about the "safer" books going out of print? Suzi: Do the authors like Brent and Julie who have written LGBT-themed fiction feel pressure from editors only to write "gay books"? Suzi: (and Alex, sorry!) Brent Hartinger: Not at all, Suzi. I actually have complete freedom at both my publishers (HarperCollins and Tor) tengrrl: and literature that is "safe"--it's hard to open yourself up to a censorship battle AlexSanchez: I haven't felt that pressure. JulieP: I'd like to say I'm constantly learning from young readers. What I've learned lately is that teens read deeply enough to find personal relevance and resonance with our books. We don't need to feel suspended between two worlds, as authors. Our issues are universal because we share the universe. Brent Hartinger: Obviously, they are eager for more "gay" stuff (which is hard to believe!). But they want me to pursue other markets too Tori: well, the books that I believe have been written with the Middle school audience in mind, have not been available for very long. But maybe this is because the ones I am thinking of were before their time? Tori: such as "No Big Deal" tengrrl: i think also it's got to do with what they were taught. the place we need to make inroads is in teacher ed classes Tori: umm there was another one.....about a girl who's mother kidnaps her to go live with the mom and her partner Ed: I need to tell the authors here how much I love having your books available in my conservative home town. They are important. I am very sad to say that I MUST leave. Thanks for chatting! Keep writing! Suzi: Tori, I read that one! Brent Hartinger: Thanks for joining us, Ed! Cathy: For the librarians, any particular subject or approach you'd like to see more of in this genre? Brent Hartinger: Good question, Cathy. What needs are NOT being met? Suzi: What about queer kids of color? Tori: I got it, it is called "Living in Secret" Brent Hartinger: (Has there ever been a non-white queer main character?) Brent Hartinger: Oh, God, yes! Woodson Suzi: Jason in Alex's books Brent Hartinger: Duh Cathy: Tori, what do you mean? Sounds interesting? You mean closeted kids? Brent Hartinger: Yes, and Jason, of course! RMH: I live in a smaller conservative town, too. Kids don't talk or ask me about "gay" books, but they are almost always checked out. I think they spread the word themselves. Tori: lol, no that's the name of the book i read AlexSanchez: Re Queer kids of color, that's something I'm writing more about in terms of Latino kids, since I heard from so many how significant it was to them that Jason Carrillo in the RAINBOW books is Latino Cathy: Oh, got ya. :-) persei: i want more books like what we talked about earlier - where the focus is not necessarily the "gay experience" Suzi: Yes, Woodson, but it seems to me like if the kids have to read E. Lynn Harris to see an African-American person who's queer, well... Tori: I just bought "what becomes of the broken hearted" for my professional library JulieP: What I love about Alex's books is that he mixes race and gender so beautifully. Authentically. Thank you, Alex. persei: but have gay characters Brent Hartinger: I've heard that from folks too, Alex (about YOUR books, I mean) AlexSanchez: Wow, thank YOU! Brent Hartinger: What do you mean, Suzi? BethSaxton: any books where the character is sitll questioning at the end? Suzi: I mean, heck, I just want more books where the queer kids are kids of color. JulieP: We need so many more writers, of all ilks, to contribute to the literature. I hope up and coming writers are encouraged by our success. Tori: That book is a very interesting/affecting story Brent Hartinger: Ahhh, yes, I see. Suzi: (Or more YA books with nonwhite kids being the main character, queer or not) Scovil: That's a good point, Beth...an untidy ending. Suzi: Julie, I am encouraged. It began with Ellen and has continued. Suzi: (Thanks, Ellen!) ellwitt: Whoa, you give me too much credit, Suzi! Brent Hartinger: That's an interesting idea, Beth. JulieP: And where is the bisexual literature? For girls, especially. So many identify as bi. Tori: Do you all know "design lines" Suzi: okay, I meant for me... Scovil: No, I don't, Tori. BethSaxton: after all, some of these kids spend years trying to sort out how they really feel, combined with pressure, etc. Tori: I thought that was sooooo wonderful when I read it in teacher school Brent Hartinger: It's true, Julie. I get SOOO much mail about
Min, so many people identify with her Brent Hartinger: (And I AM writing a book from her POV) JulieP: There's much to be accomplished yet. Suzi: Julie, I think girls in fantasy and in fan or slash fic are often bi Tori: i dont no if it is still in print Scovil: What's the plot? JulieP: Suzi, right. They are. Fan fic and slash are much more gender friendly, too. E Lockhart: Thanks to you all for the really interesting chat! Goodnight. Tori: Two girls are in love for the first time and a boy is spying on them. Brent Hartinger: Oh, I can't reveal that or I'd have to kill you. Suzi: Emily, I"ll be curious to see if gay boys respond to The Boyfriend List! Tori: he lets the cat out of the bag and someone dies Tori: read it a long time ago Scovil: Sounds dark. Brent Hartinger: Yes, we're down to our last few minutes (though people are certainly welcome to stay and chat once we're "officially" done) Brent Hartinger: Do we have any final comments or questions for our group? Scovil: Thanks for doing what you're doing. ellwitt: This has been the fastest moving chat I've ever attended... there's' obviously a lot to say on this topic! Suzi: Thanks, all you great authors! FUNNYWRITER: Julie, how did you transition from writing humor for the younger set to what you are writing now? Did someone encourage you or did you come to it on your own? Brent Hartinger: I know, it seems like we just scratched the surface! Cathy: Really interesting discussion, folks. tengrrl: it has been excellent. thanks to all of you AlexSanchez: Thanks everyone, I've really enjoyed it. Thank you Brent, for setting this up. Brent Hartinger: So much more to say... E Lockhart: We shall see, but I was really talking about the book after that, Fly on the Wall, appealing to boys. Suzi, are you ConnorGal? Now I am really going. Gnight. JulieP: Hugs and kisses to all you fabulous librarians an teachers. Write on, writers. Tori: Thanks again for letting me hang out with you Brent Hartinger: And I think Julie is so right when she says there are so many more stories to tell... Scovil: I look forward to hearing from you, Tori! RMH: I've enjoyed many of your books! Good night! ellwitt: Yes, thanks, Brent. It's been a great discussion. Cathy: Do a Part Two, Brent! Brent Hartinger: I too an hopeful that many others will be encouraged by our success... Brent Hartinger: :-) Debbie J.: Thanks all. What a terrific discussion. Brent Hartinger: Let me thank my panelists Brent Hartinger: ALEX SANCHEZ Brent Hartinger: JULIE ANNE PETERS Brent Hartinger: CHRIS TEBBETTS Brent Hartinger: ELLEN WITTLINGER tengrrl: (applause, applause) Brent Hartinger: And me, your host, BRENT HARTINGER Brent Hartinger: take a bow, all Rochelle: Thanks to all of you - keep writing! Brent Hartinger: Please join us here (almost) every Tuesday for these chats, they're ALWAYS fascinating Brent Hartinger: So come on back y'all! :-) |