Lynn: Thanks for inviting us tonight

CynthiaLS: Thanks for coming. We'll wait a few minutes until everyone's logged in and then get started.

Brian Yansky: Hi Cynthia. Thanks for inviting me.

CynthiaLS: Hi everybody! I've got 8:27 EST, 7:27 CST. We'll give it another few minutes and then get going.

CynthiaLS : Welcome to Boys & Girls, Men & Women, Authors & Heroes: how gender affects how we write, whom we write for, and what happens next.

CynthiaLS : Tonight we’re talking with three novelists: D.L. Garfinkle, author of Storky: How I Lost My Nickname and Won The Girl (Putnam), Brian Yansky, author of My Road Trip To The Pretty Girl Capital of the World (Cricket), and Nancy Werlin, author of five YA novels, most recently Double Helix (Dial).

CynthiaLS : What I’d like to do is open with questions for the panelists, calling on each in turn, and then once I’ve exhausted those open up to questions from the audience.

CynthiaLS: As an overview, I thought we’d talk about gender authenticity, readers, politics, and craft/psychology.

CynthiaLS : First, I’d like to ask each of the novelists about their experience, challenges, and/or lack thereof when it comes to writing a cross-gender protagonist. I.e., from a female point of view if you’re a male. Debby?

Debby Garfinkle : Well, I was lucky to have guys in my critique group and a male editor and two brothers. So that made it easier to write as a male.

Debby Garfinkle: Plus, I'm sort of a tomboy.

Debby Garfinkle: But it was embarrassing reading the erection scene out loud to my critique group.

Brian Yansky : I am working on a novel now that has sections from a female point of view and it's difficult for me. My critique group is three women and me, so I get their feedback and that's helped.

NancyWerlin: I've written 2-1/2 of my five books from a male POV. I have a joke about how to do it ...

NancyWerlin : It's based on the movie "As Good As It Gets." There's a scene in which Jack Nicholson's character, a writer, is asked how it is that he can write women so convincingly. He says, "First, I think of a man. Then, I remove reason and accountability." ...

NancyWerlin: Well, to write a boy, first, I think of a girl. Then, I remove all self knowledge.

NancyWerlin: Like the Nicholson joke, I think there's just enough of a truth there to hurt.

CynthiaLS: Is there such a thing as gender authenticity in voice? Is it sexist to ask? Is it sexist not to? Brian first this time.

Brian Yansky : I think there is such a thing, but you don't have to be of that gender to make the voice authentic. But there is such a wide spectrum of voices in male and female characters that it's hard to pin down what authentic is.

Debby Garfinkle: I think that whether it's innate or societal, men are usually different than women.

Debby Garfinkle : Women are generally more sensitive than men. I made my character particularly sensitive for a guy. I don't think I could write a stereotypical insensitive male.

Debby Garfinkle: Of course, when I was a teen, I was interested in sex too. Just not cars so much. ;)

Debby Garfinkle: But I also made him very interested in sex and cars, because that is what a lot of teen boys seem to be interested in.

NancyWerlin: I think anybody can write anything. If you mess up, readers will let you know. I just finished reading Wally Lamb's SHE'S COME UNDONE, and wow, he got his woman right. I think writing from the other gender POV is very common, and is often done well. If you KNOW your character, that is what's important.

CynthiaLS : It’s often said that girls will read “boy” books, but boys won’t read “girl” books. What do you think is a “boy” book? What is a “girl” book?

Debby Garfinkle: I know with my son, he prefers humor, nonfiction and action.

Debby Garfinkle: I prefer character driven work.

Debby Garfinkle: But my daughter has tastes more like my son, so I think it's hard to generalize.

NancyWerlin: The obvious definition has to do with the main character. If female, "girl" book. If male, "boy" book. I know that sounds simplistic, and yet, I think it pretty much works.

Brian Yansky : I think boys will read a novel that is thoughtful and character driven. I think they have a harder time with romance. I do think boys are drawn to books with male protagonists.

CynthiaLS : I’m married to Greg Leitich Smith a male author. Since his first novel came out, in professional contexts, I have been repeatedly gushed at about how great it is that he’s a man writing for kids, about how good he looks at a podium, and once at a conference, two teachers actually squealed at him and scurried out of the room like teenagers. So, I’m asking…. Do male authors have an advantage? And if so, why and how does it manifest itself?

Debby Garfinkle: Oh, man. Put me on the spot! I think the author of Doing It got away with a lot of stuff because he was male.

Debby Garfinkle : I think if a female had sex as much as the guys did in Doing It, they wouldn't be looked at as lovable characters. They'd be seen as pitiful sluts.

Debby Garfinkle: But I might just be ranting.

NancyWerlin : Hahaha! Well, this is a female-dominated field, and I believe that male writers therefore do get a bit more attention, at least initially when they publish. And are taken more seriously. Do the math on the Printz winners and honor books. There's a disproportionate number of male winners, given their percentage in the field.

Debby Garfinkle: And the Caldecott winners, too.

Brian Yansky : I think they do. You mean advantage in terms of the business of publishing? Yes. Do they get squealed at more? I don't know. I've never had that experience.

NancyWerlin: Well, but the percentage of male illustrators is actually pretty high.

CynthiaLS : How about more personally, in every day life. YA writers are often minimized in comparison to adult writers. Do you think there's more pressure on men to write for adults whereas it's seen as more of a female domain to write for youth? Nancy, Debbie, Brian -- considering your own experiences.

NancyWerlin : Hm. You know, I think there's pressure on all of us to write for adults. I bet we all hear "When are you going to write a book for adults?" about equally.

NancyWerlin: Writing for children and teens isn't taken seriously by those outside of the YA/Chilldren's book community. Period.

Debby Garfinkle : I'm coming from being a homemaker. People already looked down on me for that. So at least being an author is a step above that, credibility-wise. Though, of course, I think taking care of children deserves respect.

Debby Garfinkle: But, I do get those patronizing comments: "She writes little children's books."

Brian Yansky : I think the YA field is very hot right now. A lot of men seem to be writing YA fiction. I think, in general though, people still think writing YA is less than writing for adults.

CynthiaLS : So that's some common ground, or at least common oppression. How about with regard to craft? Do any of you have a sense of how your gender (experiences, perspectives) affects your writing itself? Nancy, Debby, Brian.

NancyWerlin : What an interesting question. I think my gender pervades my writing, which is almost always about the managing of relationships (a female topic) even when the MC is male.

NancyWerlin: (Among other things, of course.)

Debby Garfinkle : I think being female sometimes means being ignored. Writing is a way to get my voice out there. In real life, I'm soft-spoken with a high--pitched voice. In my writing, I'm funny and assertive.

Brian Yansky : I think it may affect what I chose to write about. I do write about the whole father/son relationship. Alas, I do write about cars and sex. Just sometimes.

NancyWerlin: (It's a dirty job, Brian, but someone has to do it.)

Debby Garfinkle: But my book is father/son, cars, and sex too!

Brian Yansky: So there we go. We're all in this together.

moon: I find I write to try and understand events in my life. Some are personal, others spiritual and social.

NancyWerlin: I don't think there is a teen book out there that isn't about sex, one way or another.

CynthiaLS : Recently, Greg wanted something from his publisher, and I brainstormed ways he could ask for it. Instead, he just picked up the phone and told them what they were going to do for him. We're both recovering lawyers, so... Do you think gender impacts the way we do business in publishing?

moon: I find kids question many of the same concepts we do.

Brian Yansky: Or many adult books when it comes down to it.

NancyWerlin: Yes, I think it does affect how we do business, Cyn. In stereotypical ways, too. Women are more timid, for sure.

CynthiaLS: (We'll open up to questions from the audience in a couple of minutes). Debby, Brian, Nancy?

Brian Yansky: I'm a terrible business person. I'd be happy to blame it on gender but I think it's just personality.

Debby Garfinkle : I am a lawyer who hates confrontation. Not good. My husband is a lawyer who loves confrontation. I luckily have an agent (female) who can do some of my dirty work for me.

moon: I think gender plays a huge influence in style.

Debby Garfinkle: But I do think I'm more assertive than others. I asked Penguin for a pretty big promotion thing last month, and they said yes.

Debby Garfinkle: After accruing so many rejections, I don't care anymore if anyone says no to me.

moon: You are so brave, and wise.

CynthiaLS : One more global question for the panelists, backtracking a little... Assuming boys won’t read “girl” books, but “girls” will read either, should we be more worried about this? Is it part of the reason there are, say, so few women in Congress? Brian, Nancy, Debby.

Brian Yansky : Because they are at home reading? No. I think girls read more and are more open because they read more. Certain boys will read girl books. And certainly when they become adults they'll read books by women.

NancyWerlin : We can worry all we like. I don't think it will change things. Sometimes I think it's smart of women not to run for major offices. Awful, huh?

Debby Garfinkle: I think we should be worried. I think that times are changing. Something like 60 percent of U.S. college students now are female. I think as women gain more power, they will gain more respect. My sons, by the way, both love Junie B. Jones. My oldest son is a huge Cam Jansen fan. So it's not true for all boys.

CynthiaLS: At this point I’d like to open to questions and comments

CynthiaLS: Also if the panelists themselves want to introduce a question or comment, they should do the same.

sunshine : I am interested, as an unpublished author in the answers to these questions. First, I love the longer titles of your books Debby and Brian and, yet, I've been stuck trying to find a snappy three word title for my YA novel. Nice to see that longer titles are OK. Did you run into any resistance when you pitched them? Secondly, any advice for the cover letter?

CynthiaLS: Panelists should answer in any order they so please. :-) (Yes, I'm a control freak)

Debby Garfinkle : Oh, I fought that long title! My publisher combined two of the titles I suggested. But now I'm used to it, and people are saying they like it.

Brian Yansky: My editor loved the title of my book but many others at the publishing house objected because of its length.

NancyWerlin: Cover letter should be short. VERY short. "Here's my ms, here are my credentials, here's my address." That's it.

Debby Garfinkle: I am really bad at making up titles, and usually just ask a bunch of writers for suggestions.

Debby Garfinkle: Yes, I agree with Nancy. It's all about having a good manuscript.

Brian Yansky: One page max, I think.

Debby Garfinkle: Or I should say, marketable manuscript.

CynthiaLS : We've had chats about sex in YA, but I'm wondering more about what Debby said about what goes for boys versus girls. Could the panelists expand on that? Any insights?

sunshine: I was advised to author a punchy pithy 200 word synopsis with a great one line sinker. I loved that editor speak!:)

Debby Garfinkle: Most YA books with girls having sex: the girl winds up pregnant, diseased, or dead.

Debby Garfinkle: I'd like to see more YA books where the girl has sex and it's okay.

Debby Garfinkle: When boys have sex, it seems like they don't get punished. (These are not MY original arguments, but I agree with them.)

NancyWerlin: Heavens, I just realized I killed off a sexually active girl in my second novel. Horrors!

tengrrl: I bet if girls have sex and it's okay, the book gets more censorship than the alternate for boys

MaryP: Nancy , you've written novels with both male and female MC's. What influenced you to settle on a certain gender? Is there one you are more comfortable with or drawn to?

NancyWerlin: Sexually active girl bites the dust in this season's debut sensation, Looking for Alaska. Hmm!

Debby Garfinkle: And all the females in Doing It were screwed up.

Catherine Atkins: On teen feedback, for all of you, are you hearing more from boys, girls? Or is it equal?

NancyWerlin: I hear from more boys than girls. Huh. I never thought about that before.

Brian Yansky: I hear more from boys.

Debby Garfinkle: My book just came out. I haven't heard from ANY teens. I have a paranoid suspicion that only YA writers will read my book?

Catherine Atkins: Takes a while to filter down, Debby. It'll reach em, I bet

Debby Garfinkle: I wonder what the percentage of adult/teen readers is.

Tanya Lee Stone : Well, I'm going to shelve what I was going to say about sex... But I am now wondering why people might be hearing more from boys and if that is a gener-related issue as well.

Brian Yansky: I've wondered that myself. Certainly YA writers are big YA readers.

NancyWerlin: I think boys might feel more confident in just sending off an email.

Debby Garfinkle: I don't know.

Brian Yansky: In my case, I suppose it's just what others have said. My main char. is a boy.

NancyWerlin: (What were you going to ask about sex, Tanya?)

NancyWerlin: (Or comment.)

Tanya Lee Stone: needs more thought... :-)

CynthiaLS : We have a number of YA authors in the chat. Would any of you like to comment about writing cross gender, or women v. men in publishing, etc.?

Debby Garfinkle: I do feel that writing as a male is freeing. I can write from the heart, but it's not SO close to me.

Catherine Atkins : I think gender relations and how teens really act don't always fit with the way things *should* be in a story. *Should* meaning what is wanted politically, socially.

Dorian : I'm wondering what others think about how in adult writing when men like Updike, Malamud, or Bellow wrote about adultery and angst it was an Important book, but women who wrote about those things never made the canon of literature. How does that relate to ya?

CynthiaLS: Any thoughts on Dorian's question?

Brian Yansky: Well, adultery isn't big in YA.:)

Catherine Atkins: Since males are rarer in YA, automatically more attention is paid--especially in heavy, issue books. IMO

NancyWerlin: I'm not sure, but it's a good question, Dorian. YA is different because it is so female-dominated, but we get a glimpse of the same pattern in what we spoke of earlier: men whose books are taken more seriously, no matter the content.

Catherine Atkins: Male writers, I mean.

CynthiaLS: Any thoughts on Dorian's question

Dorian: I guess I mean when men and women have the same problems it seems more important sometimes on the male side.

Dorian: Is this true with boys and girls in ya?

WriterRoss: Was THE SCARLET LETTER a YA in its day? <g>

NancyWerlin: Got any specific books in mind that you can cite?

MarPerez: I can think of a specific book. But not one I'd be willing to discuss publicly.

Debby Garfinkle: Though Speak is considered a classic, F.L. Block is being honored this year, Meg Rosoff won the Printz last year...

WriterRoss: SPEAK and TARGET...

NancyWerlin: Yes, but do the math on all the winners and honor books thus far, Debby.

CynthiaLS: Tanya Lee had a question; let's let her get that in...

Debby Garfinkle: And I am using my initials on my book instead of my full name for a reason.

Tanya Lee Stone : Actually, it was in response to Cyn's question about gender issues in publishing... When I'm negotiating a contract I always tell myself to "think like a man." Works like a charm. I go into the negotiation assuming that I'm worth what I'm asking for, instead of being sheepish about it. A little more bravado than usual.

Debby Garfinkle: Good for you, Tanya.

Debby Garfinkle: I actually am pretty assertive, but I HATE doing it

Tanya Lee Stone: That's the beauty of email!

kimmar: it's too bad that one has to consider concealing their gender to appeal to mass readers

CynthiaLS : I'd like to follow up on Catherine's comments about writing how gender relationships should be instead of how they more often are. Do any of you ever feel pressured to (I hate this term but) employ PC in your writing or find your own self-censor at odds with your creative side?

Debby Garfinkle: I was told to take out the f-word because some librarians wouldn't carry my book.

kimmar: I've seen it more often with women, tengrll, and while I understand it, it bugs me that it has to be so

WriterRoss: Ten-- Male authors take pseudonyms when writing romance novels

NancyWerlin: I've used the F-word and had terrific sales. That's bunk.

Catherine Atkins : Well, I'm thinking of the call that comes out sometimes for teen girls who like sex(in lit!). I understand the call, but should we write character in *just* so they match a socially progressive idea?

Brian Yansky : I have had some librarians say they couldn't buy my book because of the f word. I just write the best book I can and try not to think about anything but that.

Debby Garfinkle: Now you tell me, Nancy.

Debby Garfinkle : I actually changed a line to impart a message that drinking was bad for you. My editor said it didn't ring true and had me change it back. I was happy for that.

WriterRoss: Would the CURIOUS INCIDENT have had a crossover appeal if the hero was a she? Do male stars make YA more accessible?

NancyWerlin: Thank you so much, Cynthia. You are an excellent host. I am happy to have been invited.

CynthiaLS: I would like to thank Debby, Nancy, Brian, and all of the rest of you fine folks for participating in the chat.

Debby Garfinkle: Thank you too, Cyn.

Catherine Atkins: Great chat, Cynthia, everyone!

Dorian: Great chat, all of you. And, Cyn, you are an excellent host.

Brian Yansky: Thanks, Cyn

tengrrl: wow. that flew by! Thank you everyone!

NancyWerlin: Pamela, yes, I think CURIOUS INCIDENT would have been wonderful either way. What a terrific book.

MaryP: clap clap clap!! Thank you Cyn, Nancy, Brian, and Debby!

Catherine Atkins : Some critics were angry my fat girl character went on a diet--since teen girls should affirm their fat(right). That kind of thing. Makes you shrug, but still, it's out there.

Catherine Atkins: In Alt Ed, I mean.

NancyWerlin: (The key is to remember the F word is not a swear, it's a verb. :>)

Debby Garfinkle : I did go out of my way to put in a sympathetic lesbian character. I like being PC sometimes. If a few readers feel a little more sympathetic to lesbians after reading my book, I'm happy.

Catherine Atkins: I hope so, Nancy, on being true to our characters.

NancyWerlin: I believe it to my core.

kimmar : i like to think I can pick out an f-word used purely for shock value a mile away. But if it fits with the character, I have no problem with it

NancyWerlin: But also remember that each character is complex. Never a stereotype.

CynthiaLS : Do we think that gender is becoming less relevant with changing roles or in the teen quest for identity is it a forever focus (to varying degrees)?

Debby Garfinkle : I was surprised that half the reviews warned of the focus on Storky's penis, but no one mentioned that he drank without much consequence.

CynthiaLS: (all boys drink, but only a few have penises, Debby)

Catherine Atkins: Right--and complex characters do what they do out of character, not to match a fashion.

NancyWerlin: (ha!) A big question, I'm afraid. I think gender is always relevant and always will be.

MaryP : Cyn, I think the quest for identity is still strong for teens(and for us all!) but I think identity has fewer limitations than in the past.

Debby Garfinkle: At least for a very long time to come.

NancyWerlin: Yes, Catherine, I think so.