HostMarPerez: Hi, Kym. The chat starts in approximately 15 minutes

kym: thanks, I'm in New Zealand so its been tricky getting times right (it's Wednesday
lunchtime)

HostMarPerez: Oh, I can imagine. I can barely remember the time differences between the two coasts here. Wow! that's the power of the Internet though, being able to talk to people from long distances. Who are your favorite ya authors in New Zealand?

kym: I think Margaret Mahy would be the only one of note. There are some good Australian ones around though

HostMarPerez: Isn't Feeling Sorry for Celia by an Australian author? I really enjoyed that book.

kym: Jacklyn Moriarty. Her new book is Finding Cassie Crazy, but I think it was published under a different title in America

HostMarPerez: I think the title here is Year of Secret Assignments

kym: Melina Marchetta also had a new book published in the last year

HostMarPerez: Susan, are you reading any undiscovered gems right now? I can't wait to hear what Tinna and Jonathan will have to say. I love to "discover" new books, but haven't had much time lately.

Susan: well, I have been reading all kind of things, not all YA

HostMarPerez: Hi, Tinna! Tinna is one of our two guest speakers. Susan, are you the Susan who recommended Mr. Latte to me?

Susan: just finished The Intelligencer by Leslie Silbert which is sort of like a very intelligent version of the TV show Alias

Susan: Yes, Mr. Latte was an undiscovered gem I think.

Tinna Mills: Has anybody here read "The Year of Secret Assignments" yet? I thought "Feeling Sorry For Celia was Pretty Good"

Susan: Also The Goose Girl by Hale which was WONDERFUL but I think lots of people have read it

kym: I liked it, but read it as finding cassie crazy

HostMarPerez: Hi, Linda Joy. I think Hale has a new one called Enna Burning. Boy, I seem to be talking about books I HAVEN'T read. Tinna, I read Secret Assignments. What did you think? I liked Celia better, but enjoyed both

Tinna Mills: One of the books that I automatically thought of when I heard this topic was "Slumming" by Kristen Randle

jonathan: Hi. Sorry I'm late. I'm going to catch up on what people have been talking about.

HostMarPerez: Hi, Jonathan! Tinna & Jonathan, we'll wait a couple of minutes and then get the official part of the chat started. I'll ask a couple of questions and then we'll open it up.

HostMarPerez: And Jonathan, you're right on time!

Tinna Mills: Haven't gotten around to secret assignments yet, but reading the description for it is what made me read the first one and I eagerly await it

jonathan: Oh, I love THE YEAR OF SECRET ASSIGNMENTS, not quite as funny as FEELING SORRY FOR CELIA perhaps, but much better, more poignant.

jonathan: Has anybody read WHEN DAD KILLED MOM by Julius Lester?

HostMarPerez: Hi, Amanda & puddy. I'm please to welcome Jonathan Hunt and Tinna Mills, two dynamic library professionals as tonight's guest speakers. We'll be discussing "undiscovered gems", books people should be talking about, but aren't. I'll ask the panel a couple of questions and then open it up for questions.

jonathan: Just a small correction, I'm a teacher--but I wouldn't mind being a dynamic library professional. :-) Anybody got a scholarship? Anybody?

HostMarPerez: Jonathan, I'm so sorry. I just assumed you were a librarian because you are so well-read (this is NOT to imply that teachers AREN'T well read.)

Tinna Mills: lol . . . that's great. I went to school for teaching and just ended up in a library. I'm probably the only one that's GLAD that it's hard to find a teaching job in MI these days!

jonathan: One thing I really liked about THE YEAR OF SECRET ASSIGNMENTS was the structure of the novel. I thought it was quite sophisticated, but a bit deceptive in its simplicity.

kym: Saving Francesca by Melina Marchetta was exceptionally good - she wrote Looking for Alibrandi

jonathan: Marlene, that's okay, I think most people probably assume that I'm a librarian. I really wouldn't mind being one. :-)

jonathan: I really liked SAVING FRANCESCA a lot. I think it will win the CBCA later this month, but I liked YSA which wasn't even shortlisted. Phooey.

HostMarPerez: Okay, here's my first question. Jonathan & Tinna, do you think there is one book that you've read this year that really stood out as a "gem", but hasn't been noticed?

HostMarPerez: And if so, what made the book stand out for you?

jonathan: Hmm. Great question. I have two. I really like THE SUNBIRD by Elizabeth Wein. It's an alternative history kind of thing set in ancient Africa. Wonderful. The other one is WATERS LUMINOUS AND DEEP by Meredith Ann Pierece. It's short stories, and I think they're mostly wonderful, but I must be in the minority.

Tinna Mills: Well, my favorite reads this year has been The City of Ember. It got some recognition, but not as much as I think it deserves

Tinna Mills: I also really enjoyed "Slumming" by Kristen Randle

jonathan: Have you read THE PEOPLE OF SPARKS? I haven't but it hasn't been as warmly received as THE CITY OF EMBER. I liked EMBER okay, but I didn't really care for the plotting. I think that was the Achilles Heel.

jonathan: SLUMMING was a great read. Very yummy.

Tinna Mills: Why? Well, Ember is a fun, fast and easy read . . . but also has great depth

Tinna Mills: I read Sparks. It was really sluggish at the beginning and I think that's why it wasn't received as well. It has a good ending, but takes too long to get there and doesn't live up to the first book. IMHO

jonathan: Wein has taken the fictional daughter of King Arthur and Mordred (here called Medraut) and set them down in ancient Ethiopia. She's created a story that builds gradually into a very suspenseful book. I love it.

Tinna Mills: What did you like about Slumming?

jonathan: It was very easy reading for me. I liked everything: the characters, the plot, the theme. Very readable. Didn't strike me as high literature, but I think I would have really enjoyed it as a teen.

jonathan: That last sentence is about SLUMMING.

HostMarPerez: Tinna & Jonathan, can you expand on what is characteristics make these books rise above the rest?

Tinna Mills: Yes. It was an easy read. Plus, I think it had a really good theme. I mean, sort of like "don't judge a person until you've walked a mile in their shoes"

jonathan: Fantasy is very strong in plot and setting, but can sometimes be weaker in character. I didn't find that to be true for SUNBIRD. I think it digs a little deeper, is more literary, is more concerned with that literary quest of what it means to be human. I think it will satisfy genre readers and literary readers alike.

HostMarPerez: do you think that some books don't get attention due to a "genre bias?"

Tinna Mills: With the two that I choice I think it is the fact that they are easily accessible to teens because the use simple language, the characters are easy to identify with and they give you a lot to think about as well.

jonathan: Absolutely, no doubt about it. Fantasy, mystery, and nonfiction all get slighted.

Tinna Mills: I am a historical fiction buff and I would say the same about my genre. It's not as popular. Fantasy is popular, but doesn't win many awards.

jonathan: And when you think in terms of the Printz, I think they tend to favor literary fiction over traditional first person YA contemporary fiction.

jonathan: I love historical fiction, too. But I don't think it's nearly as marginalized as other genres. In fact, I think it wins the Newbery more than any other kind of genre--BUD, NOT BUDDY, A YEAR DOWN YONDER, A SINGLE SHARD, CRISPIN, etc.

HostMarPerez: I think humor gets the short end of the stick, too. But I think that is changing a bit. Do you think literary fiction reaches teens? And how do teens find their own gems? Word of mouth?

Tinna Mills: Yes, in literary circles it seems to get its due.

jonathan: Oh, absolutely humor gets shafted. I think DOING IT will probably suffer some bias from that, because some people won't find it funny. We'll have to see how YSA does.

Tinna Mills: Some literary fiction reaches teens, but more often they read things like Mates, Dates & Gossip Girls

jonathan: I think literary fiction is a very, very small niche. There are some authors where the adult readers are much more appreciative than the teens.

Tinna Mills: Oh, definitely. Usually the teens are looking for one of only a few things. Humor, romance, fantasy or action

Amanda: What is your favorite book of all time that didn't get the attention you feel it deserved?

jonathan: Without a doubt, its COUNTDOWN TO INDEPENDENCE by Natalie Bober. It's a terrific nonfiction book that got a couple starred reviews. It was over three hundred pages, though, and I think that scared a lot of people. It sucked me in in such a way that only the best world-building fantasy does.

Tinna Mills: He-He. Without a doubt Scribbler of Dreams by Mary Pearson. Every teen that I have shared the book with has just LOVED it. I have a cousin who is 13 and reading it for the 3rd time. Not only that, it provokes great discussion.

jonathan: COUNTDOWN was published in 2001 which is arguably the best year ever for YA publishing. So many fantastic books. I thought COUNTDOWN was the best.

MaryP: (blush)

MaryP: WHY do you think some books fall under the radar? Is it because . .

MaryP: they can't be pushed on teens no how, no way?

Tinna Mills: Hmmm . . . good question. Maybe they can't be pushed to teens or maybe there aren't enough adults excited about them and doing the promoting.

jonathan: A couple reasons, I think, bad marketing, bad titles, bad cover art, no world of mouth, can't find the book in the bookstore or the library. I think these are all problems. I've also heard some people say that too many books are being published to track them all down.

Tinna Mills: I think that most likely it is a combination of those things

MaryP: hmm, the old promotion thing again?

MaryP: The very thing writers hate to think about!

Tinna Mills: Bad cover art will kill a book, no doubt. Teens will definitely just a book by its cover

jonathan: I'm going to keep gushing about COUNTDOWN. It's the story of the American Revolution told from both the British and the American viewpoints and it will make sense to you in a way that it never has before. Bober is an incredible storyteller and a great researcher. Please, please, please read it.

Amanda: I'm curious: what do you guys see as "bad" marketing?

Tinna Mills: You've got me convinced, Jonathan.

HostMarPerez: Me, too, Jonathan. I have it on my list. Amanda, great question.

jonathan: I think one of my biggest problems is availability. There are lots of books I could buy on an impulse if I could walk in the store and they would be stocked, but they aren't. I don't think that's a marketing problem, unless you count distribution as marketing.

Tinna Mills: I think that being misleading and making claims that a book doesn't live up to will kill it really fast.

Amanda: Can you give an example, Tinna?

jonathan: Realistically, though, only top list authors get decent marketing. I'm not sure I'd say bad marketing. If a book is good. Hopefully, it will create the best kind of marketing. World of mouth.

Susan: I hate it when a publisher says "such and such book is the next Harry Potter" (or whatever)

Tinna Mills: Right, exactly! Kids will jump at it, but if it doesn't fit the bill the book is worse off then when it started.

jonathan: I think that turns off booksellers and librarians more than anyone else.

Tinna Mills: Extra hype can kill a book really fast sometimes too if it doesn't live up to it. There are many books I might have liked better if I had just picked them up off the shelf myself rather than following hype.

Tinna Mills: You may be right, Jonathan. But, I do think it gets to some teens if they expect it to be like one of their favorites

jonathan: Well, if there aren't any more questions, I'd love to hear other people respond to Amanda's question, because it's a good one.

jonathan: Yes, but I think that only applies to a few books like Harry Potter. Half the time the kids reading the book don't know what it's being compared to. They don't have a broad enough knowledge base.

Tinna Mills: ahh . . . good point. might also work with Lord of the Rings.

kym: How do you feel about those non us/uk authors who write brilliant work (Sonya Hartnett especially) and yet have such limited audience, because the American market won't accept them?

jonathan: I love Sonya Hartnett. I don't think she has a big audience, but I do like her work. Loved THURSDAY'S CHILD and WHAT THE BIRDS SEE. Hopefully Candlewick will continue to publish her work here.

Amanda: Kym, why do you say the American market won't accept them?

MaryP: Kim, I LOVE Sonya Hartnett too. Love her work. I think she is truly an undiscovered gem here.

jonathan: I think those literary fiction writers do have a niche, but its a small one. You normally see smaller presses taking a chance on many of them. Presses such as Front Street or Candlewick.

kym: I'm thinking SLEEPING DOGS in particular, which was one of the most thought invoking works I've read, yet got very limited coverage in America because of its controversial subject matter.

kym: And i'm pretty sure one of the endings of a Gary Crew novel got changed before being released in America, because the publishers thought it was unsuitable for an American market

jonathan: Kym, I think Hartnett had a publisher prior to Candlewick for some of her books, but they went out of print very quickly. I think SLEEPING DOGS had some controversial subject matter that made many uncomfortable. I think that's really unfortunate.

jonathan: Was that THE DIVINE WIND that was changed?

kym: I'm not exactly sure, I read about it in a course I took, but didn't actually have time to read the work

Amanda: Any book with controversial subject matter (like incest) is going to have a hard time selling here.

Amanda: Who buys most of the YA books in NZ?

jonathan: Arthur Levine publishes a lot of foreign books, and especially Australia. I've heard complaints about his changes, from titles to editing.

Amanda: I mean, libraries, schools, people off the streets?

kym: I'd say libraries. It doesn't have a big market, and there would be less than a dozen children's bookshops around the country (we're rather small)

Tinna Mills: I think that the US doesn't want to read the tough subject matter b/c many would rather read for escape.

HostMarPerez: I saw a Delacorte editor present what was in their line and there was a fair amount of Australian authors (enough that the audience was commenting on that). But she didn't get into content.

Amanda: Interesting. School libraries don't have any problem stocking Sleeping Dogs?

jonathan: Tinna, I'm not convinced. I think some subjects make the adult gatekeepers uncomfortable, but not so much the teens.

Tinna Mills: That can be true as well

HostMarPerez: jonathan, I agree with you. I think kids are EXPERIENCING tough subjects so they want to read about them and sometimes, there are barricades to that.

jonathan: We're seeing lots of librarians who are uncomfortable with DOING IT in their libraries.

Tinna Mills: Some are moving it to adult

Amanda: I don't necessarily agree with y'all. I think younger teens tend to be uncomfortable with hard content.

Amanda: Whereas older teens tend to take that sort of stuff more in stride.

jonathan: I think it's an individual thing, though. Teens do a good job of selecting books for themselves.

Tinna Mills: It's amazing what a difference a few years make.

Amanda: I don't think there's an American plot to keep certain books off the shelves...

Amanda: just librarians who want to keep their jobs hassle-free.

jonathan: If young teens don't want to read hard stuff, they don't have to check it out, but it should still be in the library for the kids that do want it. Within reason, of course. I think there are definite differences between public and school libraries.

MaryP: Jonathan mentioned availability as a problem for"undiscovered gems." Since bookstores only carry a fraction of the available titles, how do you buy your books? Ordering from publisher catalogs? After reading reviews and hearing buzz? Or do you only buy what is available on a bookstore shelf?

Tinna Mills: I think Jonathan has a good point about teens selecting their own books. They usually know what they are and are not uncomfortable with

jonathan: I buy what I want, whether it's in stock or not, but my point is that I would buy a lot more if the bookstore would stock more. Chains drive me particularly crazy because they stock so very little and even the name authors can take awhile to get into the stores after they are published.

Tinna Mills: BWI is where we get most of our books, after reading reviews and hearing "buzz". I also get my hands on an occassional ARC.

HostMarPerez: what's BWI?

jonathan: Book Wholesalers Inc. They specialize in selling books to public libraries.

HostMarPerez: I have a follow-up to Mary's question. Do you think that bookstores and/or librarians avoid purchasing books that may be controversial?

Susan: Like Baker and Taylor, Brodart

jonathan: I think that they do.

Susan: I think that it makes me think, but I still order most of it

Tinna Mills: Sometimes I think they do. It also really depends on the community what is going to be controversial and what isn't

jonathan: Some review journals such as SLJ are notorious for flagging uncomfortable content.

Susan: well, SLJ is serving schools mainly

HostMarPerez: so for instance, there will be public libraries with no resources for GLTQ issues? Ah, interesting about the review journals.

Tinna Mills: Right, and there is a difference between school and public libraries. Public libraries have a much wider variety of patrons

HostMarPerez: I live in Southern Ca but whoever buys ya at my county library does an awesome job. Pretty much any ya content you could ask for.

MaryP: Same here in Carlsbad, CA but it just takes a while to get them.

jonathan: I'm in the Central Valley by Modesto and I have to wait too long and they don't order everything they should. Not good at all.

Tinna Mills: There shouldn't be public libraries w/o any resources about GLTQ issues. There should be balance in any given collection w/ both viewpoints on controversial topics represented

Susan: I think a lot of libraries wait till all the reviews are out to order.

Tinna Mills: Yes, and some cataloging teams take longer than others as well. Things can get caught up in processing.

jonathan: True, but for example LIZZIE BRIGHT had three starred reviews for a couple months and my library just barely ordered it. Unacceptable, IMHO.

Susan: Arlington still doesn't have it (lizzie)

Tinna Mills: Sometimes, in our smaller branch libraries they will even wait for it to come out in paperback so they can stretch their budget.

jonathan: And some things I just don't understand why they don't know that they need to order the new Christopher Paul Curtis, for example. Do you really need reviews on that one?

Susan: We do have standing orders on some,

Susan: but we only have $2700 total for our branch for YA fiction and nonfiction

Tinna Mills: Yes, and those should come in faster.

MaryP: Is that a yearly budget, Susan?

Susan: Yes, for our branch.

Susan: It is about 6.5% of our total budget.

jonathan: I understand, but this leads back to my problem. I don't want to wait. I'm willing to buy these books, but only as an impulse buy. I don't want to have to sit down and order them online or walk into a bookstore and special order.

HostMarPerez: jonathan, I know what you mean. I lose track if I don't write a title down right away. I've been keeping a to read list for a couple of years and it helps.

jonathan: Why doesn't the publishing industry form its own cable network? I think it would be a great marketing tool.

Tinna Mills: Yeah, especially when the holds list is long. But, such is life in a public library.

MaryP: Susan, $2700 sounds like so much to me--divided by $16 that makes 170 new books a year, doesn't it? I don't think our library adds 170 new books every year. Or are many of these replacement books?

HostMarPerez: jonathan, that's a great idea. I've always wondered why Book TV only covers nonfiction.

Susan: some replacement, some award winners, some lonestar--it also includes money for cds, videoes, and dvds for YAs

Tinna Mills: Yeah. Fiction coverage would be MUCH more interesting!

jonathan: I think it would be a great idea. I've seen fiction on BookTV, but I would like to see something more polished. If not a whole network for the industry, why not a show for YAs, maybe on MTV or something. I could easily see someone like Walter Mayes hosting a talk show.

Tinna Mills: Also, there are some books that must have multiple copies. We have SO many copies of Harry Potter 5!

jonathan: See, I think Harry 5 is a waste of taxpayers money. Either wait your turn or buy the book.

Susan: I would watch a talk show

Susan: about YA books

Tinna Mills: Ahh, I wasn't there when they were ordered, but I'm sure the same will happen next time. Between J & YA we have 32 copies!

HostMarPerez: We're out of time, but does anyone have any last questions for our guest speakers (and you are all welcome to stay and chat, but some may have to leave)

Tinna Mills: I would CERTAINLY watch a YA talk show and it would be a GREAT way to market the "undiscovered gems" as well!

MaryP: Thank you Tinna and Jonathan for sharing your expertise.

jonathan: Does anyone have some final gems they'd like to share?

HostMarPerez: Thanks Jonathan & Tinna. It's been very interesting! I really liked The Confessions of a Not-It Girl.

Tinna Mills: yes, i'd like to hear from those who didn't have a chance to speak

MaryP: The Truth or Something by Jeanne Willis. Lovely book but I never heard a peep about it.

Susan: How Far Would You Have Gotten If I Hadn't Called You Back? by Valerie Hobbs--

MaryP: Wow, what a title!

Tinna Mills: has anyone here read "Alice, I think"?

HostMarPerez: Melissa Wyatt recently recommended Bittersweet to me

Tinna Mills: oh, I've been wanting to read that. Is it good?

MaryP: I need to shove off folks. Thank you again to Jonathan and Tinna. Marlene, great chat! (and Tinna, thank you for your very kind words. You made my day. : ) Night all!
jonathan: It's been fun, as always see y'all at a future chat. :-)

HostMarPerez: Yes, thanks so much to jonathan & tinna. You've really made this chat an interesting one. Good night everyone! I'll turn out the light a little later.