THE O'REILLY FACTOR
8:22 PM EST September 28, 2005 Wednesday
O'REILLY: "Unresolved Problem" segment tonight, the battle between traditional Americans and secular Americans continues. A Secular Coalition of America has recently opened a lobbying office in Washington.
And joining us now from D.C. is the director of that office, Lori Lipman Brown.
What -- you're an atheist, right?
LORI LIPMAN BROWN, DIRECTOR & LOBBYIST, SECULAR COALITION OF AMERICA: Yes.
O'REILLY: OK. Are all your people in your lobbying group atheists?
BROWN: Sometimes they use different titles, humanist. What we all have in common is that we don't believe in a deity, so.
O'REILLY: OK. Well that...
BROWN: Yes. Which most people would say encompasses atheism.
O'REILLY: OK.
BROWN: Sure.
O'REILLY: So the Secular Coalition is basically the atheist coalition, but secular sounds better. You don't want your -- yes, you know I understand why.
BROWN: Well there is a terrible...
O'REILLY: Stigma.
BROWN: ... stigma attached to the word atheist.
O'REILLY: Yes, I know.
BROWN: And I hope we change that, too, as we go.
O'REILLY: What do you want? Why are you there? What do you want to accomplish?
BROWN: The coalition was formed because of concern about how much government was getting into -- sorry, religion with church and state was getting mixed.
And so let me give you a good example. Right now the main thing we're lobbying on is there is an attempt -- or there was a very close vote in the House last week in which they are now going to -- if it passes in the Senate this way -- allow religious discrimination in Head Start programs where someone can get hired or fired because they don't have the right religious belief when it comes to a public program to educate preschool children.
O'REILLY: OK. Are you sure you're defining this the way the bill...
BROWN: Yes.
O'REILLY: I don't know if the bill would say we are going to OK religious discrimination.
BROWN: Actually, it's real...
O'REILLY: I don't know if it would be worded that way...
BROWN: ... specific that -- not the whole Head Start bill,...
O'REILLY: All right.
BROWN: ... but this amendment that was passed in the House.
O'REILLY: I don't have the bill in front of me, so I can't speak to it, but we'll look it up.
BROWN: Yes. Yes.
O'REILLY: Well let me just ask you a series of questions. Christmas holiday, all right. U.S. Grant signed it into law. Congress passed it. Do you want to repeal it?
BROWN: I don't think that's on our radar screen.
O'REILLY: OK, so you're OK with the federal holiday of Christmas, because it does celebrate the birth of Christ?
BROWN: I don't know if everyone in my coalition is OK with it. Given the resources, we might look into it. But right now, because of Katrina, the big issues that are coming up really deal with federal money being used to assist or to subsidize religious organizations.
O'REILLY: OK, we did that last night on this program.
BROWN: OK.
O'REILLY: And we had the discussion.
BROWN: But the vouchers.
O'REILLY: Well let me just ask you the question.
BROWN: Right.
O'REILLY: You've got the state of Louisiana in very bad shape, you've got churches outside of New Orleans that can provide shelter and food to the evacuees and they were asked to do so by the authorities in Louisiana, and they did.
BROWN: Yes.
O'REILLY: And do you believe they should be reimbursed?
BROWN: There is some problem with the government going directly to those resources instead of the...
O'REILLY: Well there were no other resources.
BROWN: But when there's no other resources...
O'REILLY: It was either that or sleep on the street.
BROWN: The distinction I would make is the difference between renting those facilities from those organizations and helping them with costs involved.
O'REILLY: I don't know what you are talking about.
BROWN: First is...
O'REILLY: But let me reframe it.
BROWN: But, well, part of...
O'REILLY: They asked the churches to provide food and shelter.
BROWN: Yes, I understand.
O'REILLY: The churches did. Should the churches get reimbursed?
BROWN: Apparently what they're attempting to do is to even pay for the cost of labor, and these church members, supposedly, volunteered their time.
O'REILLY: OK, so you don't want -- food and...
BROWN: So I think the scope of what they're trying to do is more than just pay for the food.
O'REILLY: All right.
BROWN: Yes.
O'REILLY: So food reimbursement, utilities, OK?
BROWN: It might be.
O'REILLY: Might be. Might be.
BROWN: I know when I volunteer at my church, and believe it or not there is a church that allows me to be a member, being an atheist, we donate food. I mean that's part of our church giving.
O'REILLY: All right. Look, I'm happy the atheists have a voice. Atheists have just as much right in this country as believers, like me.
BROWN: Thanks -- Bill.
O'REILLY: But I want you to be very, very careful, and I don't want you to be violating my rights.
BROWN: No.
O'REILLY: And if you do, I'm going to come after you.
BROWN: In fact...
O'REILLY: And I'll tell you how you can, and I'll give you the last word.
BROWN: OK.
O'REILLY: I have the right, all right, to walk down the street and say anything I want about my religion to anybody I want, even if it's on public property.
BROWN: Yes.
O'REILLY: I also have the right,...
BROWN: Yes, you do.
O'REILLY: ... OK, to say that the Pledge of Allegiance, historically speaking, can contain the words "under God." It doesn't offend anybody and...
BROWN: Well, historically speaking, it didn't.
O'REILLY: And there you go. Sure it did.
BROWN: That's just incorrect. It hasn't had "under God" until the 1950's, McCarthy witch hunt when...
O'REILLY: That was 50 year -- McCarthy witch hunt put that in there, did they?
BROWN: Back when the...
O'REILLY: All right. That's another topic for another day.
BROWN: ...religion was being used as a political tool. Yes.
O'REILLY: Just don't violate my rights and we'll get along fine -- Ms. Brown.
BROWN: Thank you.
O'REILLY: And good luck on your new office.
BROWN: Thanks.
O'REILLY: Plenty more ahead as "The Factor" moves along this evening, the Supreme Court very interested in Anna Nicole Smith. We'll find out why.
And more anti-military activity in the Civil Liberty Zone, now we'll have a debate on that.
And we hope you stay tuned for those reports.
And joining us now from D.C. is the director of that office, Lori Lipman Brown.
What -- you're an atheist, right?
LORI LIPMAN BROWN, DIRECTOR & LOBBYIST, SECULAR COALITION OF AMERICA: Yes.
O'REILLY: OK. Are all your people in your lobbying group atheists?
BROWN: Sometimes they use different titles, humanist. What we all have in common is that we don't believe in a deity, so.
O'REILLY: OK. Well that...
BROWN: Yes. Which most people would say encompasses atheism.
O'REILLY: OK.
BROWN: Sure.
O'REILLY: So the Secular Coalition is basically the atheist coalition, but secular sounds better. You don't want your -- yes, you know I understand why.
BROWN: Well there is a terrible...
O'REILLY: Stigma.
BROWN: ... stigma attached to the word atheist.
O'REILLY: Yes, I know.
BROWN: And I hope we change that, too, as we go.
O'REILLY: What do you want? Why are you there? What do you want to accomplish?
BROWN: The coalition was formed because of concern about how much government was getting into -- sorry, religion with church and state was getting mixed.
And so let me give you a good example. Right now the main thing we're lobbying on is there is an attempt -- or there was a very close vote in the House last week in which they are now going to -- if it passes in the Senate this way -- allow religious discrimination in Head Start programs where someone can get hired or fired because they don't have the right religious belief when it comes to a public program to educate preschool children.
O'REILLY: OK. Are you sure you're defining this the way the bill...
BROWN: Yes.
O'REILLY: I don't know if the bill would say we are going to OK religious discrimination.
BROWN: Actually, it's real...
O'REILLY: I don't know if it would be worded that way...
BROWN: ... specific that -- not the whole Head Start bill,...
O'REILLY: All right.
BROWN: ... but this amendment that was passed in the House.
O'REILLY: I don't have the bill in front of me, so I can't speak to it, but we'll look it up.
BROWN: Yes. Yes.
O'REILLY: Well let me just ask you a series of questions. Christmas holiday, all right. U.S. Grant signed it into law. Congress passed it. Do you want to repeal it?
BROWN: I don't think that's on our radar screen.
O'REILLY: OK, so you're OK with the federal holiday of Christmas, because it does celebrate the birth of Christ?
BROWN: I don't know if everyone in my coalition is OK with it. Given the resources, we might look into it. But right now, because of Katrina, the big issues that are coming up really deal with federal money being used to assist or to subsidize religious organizations.
O'REILLY: OK, we did that last night on this program.
BROWN: OK.
O'REILLY: And we had the discussion.
BROWN: But the vouchers.
O'REILLY: Well let me just ask you the question.
BROWN: Right.
O'REILLY: You've got the state of Louisiana in very bad shape, you've got churches outside of New Orleans that can provide shelter and food to the evacuees and they were asked to do so by the authorities in Louisiana, and they did.
BROWN: Yes.
O'REILLY: And do you believe they should be reimbursed?
BROWN: There is some problem with the government going directly to those resources instead of the...
O'REILLY: Well there were no other resources.
BROWN: But when there's no other resources...
O'REILLY: It was either that or sleep on the street.
BROWN: The distinction I would make is the difference between renting those facilities from those organizations and helping them with costs involved.
O'REILLY: I don't know what you are talking about.
BROWN: First is...
O'REILLY: But let me reframe it.
BROWN: But, well, part of...
O'REILLY: They asked the churches to provide food and shelter.
BROWN: Yes, I understand.
O'REILLY: The churches did. Should the churches get reimbursed?
BROWN: Apparently what they're attempting to do is to even pay for the cost of labor, and these church members, supposedly, volunteered their time.
O'REILLY: OK, so you don't want -- food and...
BROWN: So I think the scope of what they're trying to do is more than just pay for the food.
O'REILLY: All right.
BROWN: Yes.
O'REILLY: So food reimbursement, utilities, OK?
BROWN: It might be.
O'REILLY: Might be. Might be.
BROWN: I know when I volunteer at my church, and believe it or not there is a church that allows me to be a member, being an atheist, we donate food. I mean that's part of our church giving.
O'REILLY: All right. Look, I'm happy the atheists have a voice. Atheists have just as much right in this country as believers, like me.
BROWN: Thanks -- Bill.
O'REILLY: But I want you to be very, very careful, and I don't want you to be violating my rights.
BROWN: No.
O'REILLY: And if you do, I'm going to come after you.
BROWN: In fact...
O'REILLY: And I'll tell you how you can, and I'll give you the last word.
BROWN: OK.
O'REILLY: I have the right, all right, to walk down the street and say anything I want about my religion to anybody I want, even if it's on public property.
BROWN: Yes.
O'REILLY: I also have the right,...
BROWN: Yes, you do.
O'REILLY: ... OK, to say that the Pledge of Allegiance, historically speaking, can contain the words "under God." It doesn't offend anybody and...
BROWN: Well, historically speaking, it didn't.
O'REILLY: And there you go. Sure it did.
BROWN: That's just incorrect. It hasn't had "under God" until the 1950's, McCarthy witch hunt when...
O'REILLY: That was 50 year -- McCarthy witch hunt put that in there, did they?
BROWN: Back when the...
O'REILLY: All right. That's another topic for another day.
BROWN: ...religion was being used as a political tool. Yes.
O'REILLY: Just don't violate my rights and we'll get along fine -- Ms. Brown.
BROWN: Thank you.
O'REILLY: And good luck on your new office.
BROWN: Thanks.
O'REILLY: Plenty more ahead as "The Factor" moves along this evening, the Supreme Court very interested in Anna Nicole Smith. We'll find out why.
And more anti-military activity in the Civil Liberty Zone, now we'll have a debate on that.
And we hope you stay tuned for those reports.
