Jorma Kaukonen Interview
January 1984
By George Walsh
Hicksville, NY
The interview is with legendary Jefferson Airplane and Hot Tuna
guitarist Jorma Kaukonen. It was conducted at "My Father's Place"
cabaret club in Long Island, New York in January of 1984. It was
broadcast, in part, over New York's WCWP Radio later in the spring.
Present for, and lending assistance to, the interview on this
particular evening were WCWP intern George Walsh, Tony Traguardo
and photographer Steven Marchese. Jorma's partner, Michael Falzarano,
also joins us for the closing segments of the conversation. Please note
that any information offered in parentheses has been inserted into the
written text of the interview for the purpose of clarification.
We caught the first show of the '83 Hot Tuna reunion tour at
Livingston College in New Jersey, and it was quite a show.
JK - Yeah, it's funny but a lot of people didn't like it.
People who had seen the three and four hour Hot Tuna shows back
in 1975 or 1976 probably thought you'd play longer than an hour
and a half, but it was real high energy.
JK - Well, it wasn't just the length. I swore to anyone that I talked
to at the time that we'd try to do as much new stuff as possible, and
I think they were looking for more old stuff...that's just the way it is.
Most of those people probably hadn't been following you for a
few years. I mean, some of those songs, like "Ice Age" and
"Too Many Years", have been around for a few years already.
JK - About a year and a half, actually.
And there have been other songs that you've done in the recent past,
like one called "Goin' Down the Drain Without You"...a sort of
E/A chord progression that you did acoustic during 1982.
JK - I quit doing that one a while ago because I went a little too wild
on that one night...actually I had gotten a little drunk and played it
for over an hour, and after that, well, I couldn't deal with it anymore.
(laughs) It was like, ...uuh, not that one.
You dedicated the song "Radical Sleep" to Brian Marnell
(the songwriting leader of Jack Casady's former group SVT, who died of
a drug overdose in 1983) during the Capitol Theatre show in New Jersey?
JK - Yeah, Jack asked me to do that.
Had you ever met Brian?
JK - Yeah, well I had met him a couple of times.
I had only actually heard the band play twice...
I did a street fair with them one time ... and I didn't
get to hear him all that much. I don't know if it was
an especially good day because he had been in the studio
all day long. A close friend of mine whose judgement is pretty
respectable said that he was a really nice guy who was very
talented and wrote a lot of songs but ... you know, things
happen sometimes.
How was it doing the Tom Snyder show ("Tomorrow") Oct. 1981?
JK - Well, it was great doing the show, but Buddy Hackett
actually talked for too long that night. And when you're stuck
at the end of those shows you get fucked because you become part
of the credits. But you live and learn. The thing with Tom Snyder
is that ... I guess he does his own script writing when he's dealing
with people he knows about, but he didn't know anything about me.
I guess the two producers who got me to do the show had written some
questions up for him, but he really didn't know what to expect.
So he asked me some historical question and I summed up the answer
as quickly as possible so that we could get on to something real and
he sort of said ... "Well, now where do we go?" Then I realized, well,
I guess I should be talking now so ...(laughs).
There's a folky instrumental that you used to do that had lyrics
with references to trains ... what was that?
JK - That's an old song that the Weavers used to do called
"Follow the Drinking Gourd". It was a big "underground railroad"
kind of thing.
Were the vocal tracks re-recorded in the studio for
the electric portion of Hot Tuna's live album Double Dose?
JK - Yep. That album was also brutally edited too, by
Felix Pappalardi. The funny thing was that we did a live album
to save money. They're usually cheaper, but in this case,
the mixing cost us a hundred thousand bucks.
Do you ever see Bob Steeler, the last drummer for
Hot Tuna in the seventies?
JK - Well I heard that Bob lives in New York now, but
I haven't seen him and I don't know what he's into.
He was real good.
You did a unique tour in 1978 with just him and no bass player.
JK - Yeah, I kind of liked that. A lot of people didn't like it.
The thing about that was that it was kind of limited.
It was interesting up to a point, but there was only so far
that you could go. I liked a bunch of the stuff we did, though.
Michael (Falzarano) and I have been doing some stuff at home with
this other guy, a synthesizer player. In fact, if it had been
financially feasible he would have been here for this tour.
He plays a (Yamaha) DX-7, and it adds a whole different dimension
to everything - some pretty "out there" stuff. If I had a tape of
it I'd play it for you.
There was a rumor that Mike was going to play keyboards tonight.
JK - Well, no ... both of us play bass and guitar, but only the
keyboard player plays the keyboard, but he couldn't be here.
He's a real nice guy; a fun guy.
You also did a tour in 1981 with just Denny DeGregorio on bass,
and a rhythm box.
JK - Yeah, but the rhythm box was unpredictable. It didn't always
do what it was supposed to do. It was a real cheapo one.
We heard a tape of a performance of yours in Italy
(from 1981). You seemed to really like the audience out there.
JK - Italian audiences are great. They're kind of like
Long Island audiences in a lot of ways, except that Italians are
a little more "leftist" in their street politics. When you do
a show there, more often than not, the town or the commune party
subsidizes the show, so after you've played around three songs
they just let everybody in. So, you've got a full house every night.
I like Italy a lot. I spoke to an Italian guy today, and I might get
to go back there with Michael in March or April. It's real nice
over there.
Mike Falzarano was talking about the Hot Tuna tour, and he said
it was broken up.
JK - Yeah.
At the New Year's (1984) show you were urging Jack on a bit.
That was the last show, but he was playing real well.
JK - I actually sang in his ear right before that, and that
was pretty funny. But Jack was ... I don't know ... (uncomfortable pause).
I mean, the Nassau Coliseum show (in October of 1983) was phenomenal.
I thought the response was pretty good, considering that the band
hasn't played since 1977, and that we didn't have many records.
I mean, that was a pretty long time ago, and most of the audiences
were really too young to have ever seen us play live. So, it was kind
of interesting, and basically I think it was pretty positive. I think
that some people were looking to hear something else. I always try to
explain that when I play by myself, I play a million old songs, because
that's just the way it is. When I start working with other people, though,
it just seems kind of redundant to spend time going over old stuff when
you're going to be doing new stuff ... except for shit that really turns
me on like "Death Don't Have No Mercy".
That was a Reverend Gary Davis song. Did you ever get to
meet the Reverend?
JK - Oh, yeah, I met him a bunch of times.
He died in 1972, right?
JK - I think he died later than that, actually.
(pause) He was quite a guy.
You were doing another song of his for a while,
"Hallelujah, I Belong to the Band", but you never put that
one out; how come?
JK - No, I never have because I never really worked it out to my
satisfaction. I really wanted to record it, so I had to listen to it
over and over again, and there are a couple of parts that I'd still
like to tidy up.
You gave a great show at the Peppermint Lounge in New York recently.
Do you especially enjoy playing there?
JK - I play a whole lot of different places, and I remember that
as being a particularly interesting place to play, though I don't quite
remember how the audience was. The high point of that night was when
I saw a guy drop an ounce of blow (cocaine) on the floor and not give
a shit about it. (laughs) Other than that, I mean, I don't mind playing
in places with "odd" audiences because, well, you can never tell.
Some audiences are real mixed. We worked a place in Baltimore with
Hot Tuna called "The Marble Bar", and if you're ever there it's a place
really worth going to. If you're ever seen that Marx Brothers movie
"Room Service"; well, that where "The Marble Bar" is, at that hotel in Baltimore.
Nowadays, it's an old wino residence motel, but it's got a big bar.
There were three bands working the night we played, and what would happen
was that they would put in three totally different types of music. Now I
don't like to categorize music, but in the audience there were skinheads,
punkers, young people, long hairs, short hairs ... I mean, it was the most
heterogeneous group of people that I've ever seen in my life. It was like
being in a John Waters movie, and it was great. Everybody was really
responsive to everything ... and that was pretty nice. I liked that.
Long Island is a pretty interesting place to play, too. There's no place
like the Island. Michael is from Long Island, actually. I don't know
if he told you that.
You play on Long Island often. Do you live out here?
JK - I live in California, but I'm on the road most of the time.
There are pluses and minuses to that. As long as things are
going good - I guess I mean when the shows are going good,
because they're your support when you're on the road - then I'm
really pretty happy. When you run into problems and stuff, it can
get pretty aggravating. We had an incident at The Ritz (in New York)
with a bottle (being thrown at the stage). I even saw who it was,
and that's why I opened my mouth and said something. Sometimes the
only thing you can do is to be aggressive in times like that,
because you've generally got a bunch of fans on your side.
Michael and I are both pretty vocal so ... But hey, I'd play there
again if we got a job there. I've played there a bunch of times. And hey,
that's the way it goes. It doesn't happen too often but it's just one
of those things that you have to deal with.
Do you notice the audiences when you're on stage?
JK - I kind of notice but ... I wear glasses when I want to see (laughs)
... and the reason I don't wear them onstage is that I don't want
to get side-tracked, because I usually start laughing when I see
some of the stuff that goes on.
Rumor has it that you've been working on some jazz material?
JK - I really don't delve into categories too much. I'm pretty
much a blues guitarist no matter what I do, but the stuff that
we're doing with Jerry, the keyboard player, is pretty "out there".
He's pretty extravagantly improvisational, but at the same time he
has a real sort of heavy "groove" underneath it all. The DX-7 is
a sixteen voice polyphonic keyboard, so if you're playing a ten voice chord,
you can play a six piece horn stack with the mouthpiece that it has.
You can do all kinds of stuff. It's a pretty impressive instrument.
Tell us about the baritone guitar that you've been playing.
It kind of looks like an electric Ovation.
JK - Actually, it's made by these guys up in Woodstock, New York.
It's half way between a six-string bass and a guitar. It's tuned
to A instead of E. It's a nice instrument. Michael has a six-string bass,
and you have to think about those things a little bit because they take
a lot of space up. You do have to work arrangements around them.
We do "Radical Sleep", "Walkin' Blues", and a couple of others
on that during the show.
Marty Balin has said that he'd be up for an Airplane reunion,
but he also said that you wouldn't do it...
JK - Yeah, well, he's pretty right.
He says that you're too much of a "purist".
JK - Well, I don't know about that. I mean, that's pretty
complimentary. I just don't have time for that shit. I hope
they do it, though, because then they're going to have to pay me
to use the name. (laughs)
You recently toured with Bob Weir (as Bobby and the Midnites).
From what I've heard, you kind of "taught" him. Was that true?
JK - Well, I've known Weir for years, and he's always been the same.
I used to work gigs and he'd come with his tape recorder and steal licks ...
(laughs) It's like, well I taught him but he never paid me for it. (laughs)
We did "White Rabbit" at the Nassau Coliseum.
You also worked with David Bromberg recently.
JK - Yeah, David was doing a TV show for Video West in San Francisco
and he just called me up one day when I was out riding on my motorcycle
and I just stopped by to say hello that night when he was playing
at this bar. He said "... no, you've gotta play". I said I couldn't
because I had no guitar, so somebody went out and got one for me,
and we did about four or five things together - real traditionally.
He sang and both of us played. It sounded real good. One of these days
it'll pop up and you'll see it somewhere.
On David Crosby's album "If I Could Only Remember My Name",
do you know what song you played on, because it isn't
noted in the credits?
JK - No. (laughs) I don't think that David ever paid me
for that album so ... (laughs). But that's OK, 'cause I like
complaining about it more than collecting.
(Michael Falzarano joins us at this point.)
Any record plans?
JK - Yeah, well, as I said, Michael and Jerry and I are
working on this new record. The record company is called
"1550 Arts", and it's kind of a jazz/new music label.
The connection is that I've known the guy since we went
to college together. It's an audiophile sort of thing,
with real good fidelity and stuff ... and there will be
no restrictions. So, that's where we're going.
MF - He's given us a lot of freedom. He runs the company
and he just said ... "Go ahead ... do it". Most record companies
come to you and say that you've gotta do it this way or that way,
but he doesn't care. Do what you feel.
JK - I don't know when we'll finish it. We're gonna work on it
when we get back. It'll be done soon, I hope.
MF - The process of making it has taken quite a long time ...
JK - Yeah, we got subverted into some other band or something (Hot Tuna)
... (laughs). It'll work out okay, though.
Jorma, did Marty Balin really quit the Jefferson Airplane
the night that Janis Joplin died?
JK - I don't ever remember him really permanently "quitting".
He just kind of came and went.
But he did some early Hot Tuna shows, right?
JK - There was an early incarnation where he was the singer
and my brother Peter was the other guitar player. Peter has
a dental clinic now, actually. If you need your teeth fixed ...
tell him I sent you ... and he'll probably throw you out. (laughs)
What happened to Tom Hobson, who played with you
on the "Quah" album?
JK - He's still around, doing the same things he's always done ...
shooting pool, hanging around in bars and playing music.
You've played a lot of great, obscure blues songs over the years,
like Elvis' "Money Honey" ...
JK - Yeah well, Elvis didn't write it. I think it was Arthur Crudup ...
... and also "Fool's Blues" ...
JK - ... Bo Carter ... no, sorry ... Funny Poppa Smith, referred to
on some records as Funny "Paper" Smith. That can be found on one
of those old Yazoo Record collections. "God takes care
of old folks and fools". But the problem with those old songs is
that you really had to be black in order to deliver the rap that
goes with them ... (laughs) ... I mean, there's a great rap
at the beginning of that song about "... well, you know
I'm getting' old and I'm a fool, too". And the guy goes on and on.
You even covered Mickey and Sylvia's "Love is Strange".
JK - Yeah, well Mickey Baker of Mickey and Sylvia wrote all
of those jazz guitar books.
MF - There's an old guitar album by Mickey Baker called
"The Wildest Guitar" that's just amazing.
And you once did an unusual slide guitar version of
"I Am the Light of This World"?
JK - Yeah, that was done on a 1927 Rickenbacker lap steel.
That'll be around again one of these days.
Jorma, Michael ... thanks very much for talking to us.
JK / MF - Thanks. Been a pleasure.
Reprinted from: Journal of Trionic Physics, No. 6,
December 1997